free laptops for muslim students [offtopic]

[Yitzi_K]

Do you believe ASIO would know if HAI funded terrorism?

Yes. But I'm not sure they'd care all that much, it's not like they're funding terror against Australians.

[Blakhitman]

Ok now that is a ridiculous thing to say.

But anyway, if they know and they're not taking action (as they're meant to and have taken action in the past even when there was no threat to Australia) then we can say they're supporting terrorism. At least more so than us (taking laptops)?

[ninwa]

Because ASIO never makes mistakes?

[Chavi]

Similar NGOs have been banned in Australia like Interpal and Muslim aid:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/charity-used-terror-group-in-gaza/story-e6frg6o6-1111116794944
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/charity-facing-ban-over-gaza-aid/story-e6frg6tx-1111116805187

and the Australian branch of HAI was banned by Israel:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/charity-banned-for-aiding-terror/story-e6frg6nf-1111117064706
Perhaps it's just a matter of time that the Aussie government sees through the "humanitarian" veneer and bans this group as well?

No no..that's not what i meant. I am capable of speaking of these issues but very reluctant to do so. * It's not because I don't like my views challenged.
I referred to 'level of understanding' to all of us. We cannot just believe what the media says and do, we have to be reasonable. I have been to the HAI office here in Melb, and you see nothing but numerous ways on how to help people. It's a like 'World -Vision'-serves same purpose. Nobody or nothing actually proves that what you're saying is true-the first link you provided, i read it and nothing through it said it was related to Hamas. Even if it was, it would have been shown by now ( especially at the time of the Gaza wars and the flotilla attacks)..Even the websights you brought were like in ...2003?

Right from the website:
http://www.humanappeal.org.au/GazaAppeal.aspx - this appeal with full knowledge that Hamas is in charge of aid distribution.

It's no small wonder that Hamas has been accused of stealing aid and running a bribe economy in Gaza.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5661823.ece
(btw, in an epic irony, you can clearly see hebrew writing from the Israeli aid delivered to the residents of Gaza)

I'm not trying to hide anything. The fact that i said ' now is not the right place' LOL is only because I'm aware of Exam periods now. I just know how i could get so caught up with such arguments, that i can't help myself. That's pretty much why, believe it or not.

We're all in exam period. It doesn't magically lessen our obligation to remain steadfast and upright. In reality, there's just 1 argument: whether or not Muslim VCE students will still continue to support HAI despite the fact that they now have proof that HAI supports terrorism.
I believe in your case, referring to one of your first posts, the argument has been settled.

[kim.a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VXXqlWD3LI

LOL....!! a must see

[ninwa]

We're all in exam period. It doesn't magically lessen our obligation to remain steadfast and upright. In reality, there's just 1 argument: whether or not Muslim VCE will still continue to support HAI despite the fact that they now have proof that HAI supports terrorism.
I believe in your case, referring to one of your first posts, the argument has been settled.

"Muslim VCE"?

Please do not lump every Muslim student into the same group based on the opinions of very few. It's comments like that that encourage the "us and them" mentality with regards to the Muslim community.

I have dear Muslim friends who would never support such a thing.

[enwiabe]

Agreed with ninwa, Chavi, please do not demonise the Muslim communities. There are 3 people who have posted in this thread whom you believe to be misguided, address them please.

[Souljette_93]

Similar NGOs have been banned in Australia like Interpal and Muslim aid:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/charity-used-terror-group-in-gaza/story-e6frg6o6-1111116794944
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/charity-facing-ban-over-gaza-aid/story-e6frg6tx-1111116805187

and the Australian branch of HAI was banned by Israel:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/charity-banned-for-aiding-terror/story-e6frg6nf-1111117064706
Perhaps it's just a matter of time that the Aussie government sees through the "humanitarian" veneer and bans this group as well?

No no..that's not what i meant. I am capable of speaking of these issues but very reluctant to do so. * It's not because I don't like my views challenged.
I referred to 'level of understanding' to all of us. We cannot just believe what the media says and do, we have to be reasonable. I have been to the HAI office here in Melb, and you see nothing but numerous ways on how to help people. It's a like 'World -Vision'-serves same purpose. Nobody or nothing actually proves that what you're saying is true-the first link you provided, i read it and nothing through it said it was related to Hamas. Even if it was, it would have been shown by now ( especially at the time of the Gaza wars and the flotilla attacks)..Even the websights you brought were like in ...2003?

Right from the website:
http://www.humanappeal.org.au/GazaAppeal.aspx - this appeal with full knowledge that Hamas is in charge of aid distribution.

It's no small wonder that Hamas has been accused of stealing aid and running a bribe economy in Gaza.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5661823.ece
(btw, in an epic irony, you can clearly see hebrew writing from the Israeli aid delivered to the residents of Gaza)

I'm not trying to hide anything. The fact that i said ' now is not the right place' LOL is only because I'm aware of Exam periods now. I just know how i could get so caught up with such arguments, that i can't help myself. That's pretty much why, believe it or not.

We're all in exam period. It doesn't magically lessen our obligation to remain steadfast and upright.

Of course not. That is why I tried to point my stance on this. *very briefly, But i guess it didn't turn out how i thought it would be.

I will look at those sites later, when i have my own time. I only looked at the HAI site and I don't know how you came to infer of them having "full knowledge".

I still stand with my original belief, you may wish me to be misguided, only because I happen to be on the side of the case. I believe if a Jewish community was to do something like this, the responses would be very different. Positive, if not more.
But when it came to a "Muslim" organisation, suddenly all these politics came in which, I believe, was too controversial and not needed. If you have asked any of those those achievers, You would come to know that such a topic was far from their minds.

What you have provided is not solid proof. To just claim HAI has direct links, you need a lot more than that. Not just articles in websites.




TC.
Souljette

[Russ]

What you have provided is not solid proof. To just claim HAI has direct links, you need a lot more than that. Not just articles in websites.

So what would be "solid proof"? Having HAI list Hamas as an affiliate on their website? If you're ignoring the evidence presented on the basis that it's prejudiced against a muslim community, then you're being unreasonable and unrealistic.

I have no particular interest in the HAMAS/palestine etc. debate so I came into this thread without having researched/known about the details (just the general situation) and it seems to me that HAI is a lot more than they claim to be. Sure they might be doing a good thing by fostering education in australia, but I would be having reservations about what exactly it is they're doing on an international level.

[Souljette_93]

What you have provided is not solid proof. To just claim HAI has direct links, you need a lot more than that. Not just articles in websites.

So what would be "solid proof"? Having HAI list Hamas as an affiliate on their website? If you're ignoring the evidence presented on the basis that it's prejudiced against a muslim community, then you're being unreasonable and unrealistic.

Russ, there are so many websites/news articles that go against all these things and some are not true, Don't expect me to believe everything i read. So far, whatever i have look at didn't provide any clear evidence other that it being a "suspect" or whatever, which all the cases against the Muslims just always seem to be, and i am yet to find any clear -solid- proofs.

if you have ever been in work with HAI, or giving to donations to whomever, they always provided accompanying photos to prove where your money has went too. This is what happened with us when we donated to build wells for the unfortunate overseas.

[Yitzi_K]

So far, whatever i have look at didn't provide any clear evidence other that it being a "suspect" or whatever, which all the cases against the Muslims just always seem to be, and i am yet to find any clear -solid- proofs.

I am absolutely disgusted that you could have the audacity to say that. 15,000 deadly terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims in the last decade proves very well that the claims are not all 'suspect without any proof'. Pretending that there is no problem does not make it go away, it only makes it worse.

I find this refusal to see the truth regarding this organisation extremely telling.

[Russ]

Russ, there are so many websites/news articles that go against all these things and some are not true, Don't expect me to believe everything i read

Of course you shouldn't. But if you don't then you should be able to provide a reason beyond "it's not true", which is something that has been completely lacking in this thread so far.

So i repeat, why isn't this "solid" proof?

[Mr Edwards]

And the winner is...Chavi!

[ninwa]

I believe if a Jewish community was to do something like this, the responses would be very different. Positive, if not more.

1) Please don't turn this into a Jewish vs. Muslim debate.
2) Are you friggin kidding me? Were you living underground when the outrage around the flotilla attack happened?!

You demand "solid" proof yet none of you have provided anything beyond childish ad hominem attacks and empty denials. Are you actually aware of what a hypocrite you're being?

[samiira]

I believe if a Jewish community was to do something like this, the responses would be very different. Positive, if not more.

1) Please don't turn this into a Jewish vs. Muslim debate.
2) Are you friggin kidding me? Were you living underground when the outrage around the flotilla attack happened?!

You demand "solid" proof yet none of you have provided anything beyond childish ad hominem attacks and empty denials. Are you actually aware of what a hypocrite you're being?

like i said previously.. if HAI was really linked to terrorism and all dat crap.. why does it even exist in Australia.. Why hasn't the government acted against it..?? i am sure the experts have done much more reliable research.. like souljette said.. u cant believe everything the newspapers proclaims.... we are not saying we suport terrorism or any of that sort.. certainly its wrong.. we have nothing to do with.... Btw wat is ur point anyway..?? that we shouldnt accept the laptops coz they are linked to terrorism or wat..?? seriously  u ppl need a life.. go mind ur own business... Ur statements.. are all based on wat da media says ... ur misunderstandings about islam and all.. If ur not hundred percent certain of anything dont just blabber it out.. plus the media is definately not a gud source to find out reality... Any one can make up bullshit ..

and i believe this discussion should end here..
its realli not getting anywhere.. and i suggest that u should just keep ur thoughts and beliefs to urself.. were not interested.. !