in which we discuss my school getting pwned on the front of the age.com

[Eriny]

All the debate is pretty cute.

At our school pretty much you can only take a male to the formal if you are gay. Which does imply that the formal is some sort of mass school-sanctioned sexual activity.
 
Private schools, particularly religious ones, in my opinion can have their backward thinking if they like. Before you bring out all this equal rights business out, by the same argument, religion shouldn't be tolerated either. Nevertheless, the school is definitely going to regret it.

And yes, a year 12 at our school is allowed to bring a year 10 from the same school, they just have to go through the whole process of gaining an exemption.

The thing is, I don't have a problem with people being religious. Frankly, it's even okay to be homophobic for whatever reason you have. What isn't okay is to force other people into a religion (which schools don't really do) or force people into heteronormativity (which this school kind of has) or to stop people from doing things because they aren't what one thinks they should be (provided that they haven't hurt anyone). You may think that the debate is 'cute', but it doesn't justify what happened.

I think that your take is interesting though, given that you are sort of an 'insider', lol. Hypothetically, if a lesbian girl in year 11 wanted to bring her girlfriend to the ball and they were in the same year level, would the school have allowed that, do you think?

[MuggedByReality]

All the debate is pretty cute.

At our school pretty much you can only take a male to the formal if you are gay. Which does imply that the formal is some sort of mass school-sanctioned sexual activity.
 
Private schools, particularly religious ones, in my opinion can have their backward thinking if they like. Before you bring out all this equal rights business out, by the same argument, religion shouldn't be tolerated either. Nevertheless, the school is definitely going to regret it.

And yes, a year 12 at our school is allowed to bring a year 10 from the same school, they just have to go through the whole process of gaining an exemption.

The thing is, I don't have a problem with people being religious. Frankly, it's even okay to be homophobic for whatever reason you have. What isn't okay is to force other people into a religion (which schools don't really do) or force people into heteronormativity (which this school kind of has) or to stop people from doing things because they aren't what one thinks they should be (provided that they haven't hurt anyone). You may think that the debate is 'cute', but it doesn't justify what happened.

I think that your take is interesting though, given that you are sort of an 'insider', lol. Hypothetically, if a lesbian girl in year 11 wanted to bring her girlfriend to the ball and they were in the same year level, would the school have allowed that, do you think?

   /off-topic/   ^that reminds me, I used that word in an olde thread; people were like wtf??    /off-topic/

   which piece was about debutantes?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/this-is-one-ball-that-should-be-dropped/2008/03/04/1204402450848.html?page=fullpage

I don't agree with that article entirely, but she highlights some of the reasons why I chose not to do the deb. It's funny, I told some of my friends from other states about them and they report never having heard of them (they were all boys though).

I think for them to be an obligatory rite of passage, as was the case previously, is adverse, but I'm not sure if they're that harmful to girls in their current context.
 Also she argues that they're heteronormative and exclusive to those with particular inherent physical quatlities . Well, so are many pursuits and aspects of our culture.

[MuggedByReality]

Leviticus 19:19 reads, “You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.”

That is talking specifically about wool and linen. Other mixtures of fibres are acceptable. It may interest you to know that orthodox Jews to this day do not wear clothing that contains both wool and linen.

It is interesting how we follow some verses in the bible but not others.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. Where can I buy a New Zealander?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


Taken from my fb tho I can't remember where I found it.

However, someone told me that the NT makes a lot of these laws void (though I believe Judaism follows the OT, no?)

a) Bulls may only be sacrificed at the altar in the Temple. As such, it should pose no problem for your neighbour. (Additionally, you're not going to be doing any sacrificing, as a woman.)

b) In a case whereby a father simply cannot provide his daughter, he may 'sell' her to another, for that person to take care of her until she is old enough to care for herself. Nowadays, we call that 'adoption'.

c) It may interest you to know that even today, orthodox Jews do not have any relations when the wife is menstruating. It's called Taharat Hamishpacha, and is one of the most important facets of Judaism.

d) In the New Zealand slave market.

e) No, you are morally obligated to take him to the Beth Din (Court of Law). There, the case would be judged (although you would not count as a witness) and, if all the criteria were filled, the Beth Din would put him to death. Nowadays, in the absence of the Sanhedrin, there are no courts with the power to impose the death sentence. When the Sanhedrin returns, so will the death sentence.

f) No, I can't. G-d calls them both abominations, so we would have to assume that they are equal.

g) As you are both a women and not a Kohen, this doesn't matter to you. But the list of blemishes which invalidate a person from the priesthood is clearly set out in the commentaries. If you are really interested, look it up.

h) Again, it may interest you to know that orthodox Jews do not ever completely remove their sideburns, as per this commandment. Many never cut them at all. As for your friends, I'm assuming they're not Jewish, so the commandment does not apply to them. If they are Jewish, you should take them to a Beth Din.

i) Footballs are no longer made of pig skin. Problem solved.

j) The commandment to burn an entire town is not for towns which commit those sins. It's specifically for idol worship. According to the Talmud, such an event (the razing of an entire town) never too place in history.
Also, it may interest you to know that orthodox Jews to this day do not plant multiple crops in one field (although the rules for that are exceedingly complex), nor do they wear wool/linen blends.

I hope I've answered all your questions. Hit me back if you've got more.

It really bugs me when people say that all religions change over time, because it's so factually incorrect. Orthodox Judaism remains exactly the same religion that it was 3000+ years ago. We still follow everyone of the exact same laws, and I challenge any of you to prove otherwise. The only difference right now is that in the absence of a Temple and a Sanhedrin, many of the commandments simply cannot be carried out. Tomorrow, when the Temple is rebuilt and the Sanhedrin reestablished, these laws will come bac into force exactly as stated in the Torah.

  I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

[Souljette_93]

   I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

Wouldn't that depend on whether you follow the religion or not? I think I read somewhere where you said you were an atheist.

[MuggedByReality]

   I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

Wouldn't that depend on whether you follow the religion or not? I think I read somewhere where you said you were an atheist.

  Yes, I am an atheist. (Or whatever the correct term is for someone who tacitly renounces belief in a higher power.) However, I'd imagine that for orthodox Jews, if you're born a Jew you remain one, no matter what you do with your life. We'll see what Yitzl says anyway.

[Souljette_93]

   I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

Wouldn't that depend on whether you follow the religion or not? I think I read somewhere where you said you were an atheist.

  Yes, I am an atheist. (Or whatever the correct term is for someone who tacitly renounces belief in a higher power.) However, I'd imagine that for orthodox Jews, if you're born a Jew you remain one, no matter what you do with your life. We'll see what Yitzl says anyway.

Yeah I heard the same thing. We know of a Jewish lady who entered Islam and her parents will always be telling her "Your still a Jew, you have Jewish blood" or something like that

Anyway, do you call yourself a "Jew?"-I found it hard to believe someone can be Jewish and not believe in God, since I thought that had made up the foundations of the faith?

This is just me asking, I heard there's many like that but never understood it.

[Cthulhu]

Jewish != Judaism

[MuggedByReality]

  Sure, you can be Jewish and not believe in God; many famous Jews, from Einstein to Stephen Sondheim to Sacha Baron Cohen weren't/aren't religious.* Judaism is perhaps the best example of a religion which is also a race. (Though perhaps the word "Judaism" specifically pertains to the religion, I don't know.) At the moment, I don't consider my Jewish identity to be especially significant, but that could change somewhat if I become involved with a Jewish community and especially if I go to live somewhere with many other Jews close by.

 *And as regards *this* community, surely you can name another Jew who doesn't expressly believe in God?

[Yitzi_K]

   I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

The first thing you have to understand is that nowdays, the Beth Din hs very little power, especially when it comes to distributing punishment. These days, Beth Dins deal almost exclusively with business issues, divorces, and conversions.

In addition, there is an important principle in Jewish law that a person cannot make himself into a 'rasha' (lit. evil-doer). What this means is that a person cannot testify negatively about themself. You can tell a Beth Din anything you like about yourself, but it won't count for anything.

In the past, when the Beth Din had power, and in the future, when it will have that power again, this is the procedure that would happen. You would have had to be observed eating your non-kosher food by two witnesses, (the criteria for witnesses to be valid are quite extensive) who would have had to warn you immediately before you did the act that what you were about to do was against the Torah, and they would have had to warn you of the punishment you would receive for doing it. The witnesses would then go to Beth Din, whereupon their testimony would be examined extensively. If the Beth Din are satisfied with their testimony, you would receive 117 lashes (39 each for the pork, shellfish, and combined milk and meat).

   I was born to a Jewish mother. Yesterday I ate a dish which contained shellfish, pork and milk products. Do you exhort me to present myself before a Beth Din? What will likely happen if I do?

Wouldn't that depend on whether you follow the religion or not? I think I read somewhere where you said you were an atheist.

  Yes, I am an atheist. (Or whatever the correct term is for someone who tacitly renounces belief in a higher power.) However, I'd imagine that for orthodox Jews, if you're born a Jew you remain one, no matter what you do with your life. We'll see what Yitzl says anyway.

Anyone born to a Jewish mother is Jewish, no matter the level of observance. This is what makes being Jewish both an ethnic and religious matter.

Jewish != Judaism

Not true. One can be a Jewish christian, or a Jewish muslim, or a Jewish atheist. Being a Jew has nothing to do with what religion you are, it simply means you had a Jewish mother (or converted). Judaism is the religion which observant Jews believe that all Jews are commanded to follow.

*And as regards *this* community, surely you can name another Jew who doesn't expressly believe in God?

Indeed, enwiabe is absolutely no less a Jew than I am.

[enwiabe]

Indeed, enwiabe is absolutely no less a Jew than I am.

I quite enjoy my cultural Judaism and you'll even find me at Elwood Synagogue a few times a year, but that's about it. Also I'm even in the "motherland" right now

[Yitzi_K]

Indeed, enwiabe is absolutely no less a Jew than I am.

I quite enjoy my cultural Judaism and you'll even find me at Elwood Synagogue a few times a year, but that's about it. Also I'm even in the "motherland" right now

In that case happy Chanukah, don't eat too many sufganiyot

[MuggedByReality]

  Thank you  Interesting, I didn't know that it mattered how many kosher laws you flouted; I though once you entered the realms of non-kosher food that was it.

 I once saw a kosher telephone for sale in Melbourne. Would you take great care to seek out such an item?

  Also (this actually happened)  An orthodox Jew in my family was staying with my Granny, a non-observant Jew.
                                                 The Sabbath came, and my Granny's guest, upon seeing an electric light on, in the
                                                 fridge, proceeded to disable it, without asking permission. Who is most at fault here?


   Also, I'm curious: would you feel very much out of place at Chavi's school and vice-versa?

[kamil9876]

Quote from: Cthulhu on December 01, 2010, 02:22:14 PM
Jewish != Judaism

Not true. One can be a Jewish christian, or a Jewish muslim, or a Jewish atheist. Being a Jew has nothing to do with what religion you are, it simply means you had a Jewish mother (or converted). Judaism is the religion which observant Jews believe that all Jews are commanded to follow.

I think Cthulhu agrees with you, he just likes his programming jargon.

[enwiabe]

Indeed, enwiabe is absolutely no less a Jew than I am.

I quite enjoy my cultural Judaism and you'll even find me at Elwood Synagogue a few times a year, but that's about it. Also I'm even in the "motherland" right now

In that case happy Chanukah, don't eat too many sufganiyot

I have already had at least 3 at the various chanukah parties at the Technion -_-

[Yitzi_K]

I once saw a kosher telephone for sale in Melbourne. Would you take great care to seek out such an item?

A kosher phone means one without a camera or access to the internet, in order to prevent people from seeing stuff they shouldn't. (Porn etc.) These phones are used mostly by the ultra-orthodox 'chareidim' in Israel and elsewhere, whose Rabbis forbid them from using the internet for that reason. Since I have internet at home, it would be pointless to get a kosher phone.

 Also (this actually happened)  An orthodox Jew in my family was staying with my Granny, a non-observant Jew.
                                                 The Sabbath came, and my Granny's guest, upon seeing an electric light on, in the
                                                 fridge, proceeded to disable it, without asking permission. Who is most at fault here?

The light in the fridge is a big problem for us orthodox. When the light is activated, so that it will come on when the fridge is opened, opeing the fridge would mean violating the laws of shabbat. Even worse, if someone opens the fridge on shabbat when the light is on without realising it, the fridge can't be closed, as turing off a light is also against the law. This has happened in my house a couple of times, it means the fridge beeps for hours and the food spoils, but there's nothing that can be done.

As you can see, it's very important to us that the light is deactivated every shabbat, and we even have a fridge with a special setting just for that purpose. However, I do think it was inappropriate of the guest to have done it without permission, it would have been basic courtesy to ask beforehand.

  Also, I'm curious: would you feel very much out of place at Chavi's school and vice-versa?

I don't know how much you know about our respective schools. The main difference is that his is co-ed and mine isn't, and since I've never been in a co-ed school, I would probably be weird for me. Also, his school is probably a little less religious than mine, with more non-observant students, so I might feel a little ot of place for that reason. Obviously I can't say how Chavi would feel in my school (although I believe he was there at some point early on?).