Thread which *won't* divide Jews and Muslims

[MuggedByReality]

  http://johannhari.com//2010/11/19/we-should-not-tolerate-religious-excuses-for-extreme-animal-cruelty

  I agree with the article, however I mean absolutely no disrespect to any VNers who adhere to Halal or Kosher laws

[pi]

I agree as well. If an animal is unconscious, it is still alive and therefore, shouldn't that be fine with the religious groups?

Would save the animals a lot of pain and suffering.

 
however I mean absolutely no disrespect to any VNers who adhere to Halal or Kosher laws

same here

[Yitzi_K]

Now let's get something straight: Kosher slaughter is scientifically proven to be the most humane form of animal slaughter out there. This is because the knife first slices through the arteries supplying blood to the brain, and the instant loss of blood supply causes the animal to lose consciousness almost the moment it comes into contact with the knife. Now I'm sure you all know from cuts you may have experienced that the pain doesn't actually kick in for a few moments. In this case of kosher slaughter, by the time the pain begins, the animal is already unconscious and therefore doesn't feel it.

I can't speak for halal, but I do know quite a bit about kosher slaughter. In order for an animal to be kosher, the knife used must be perfectly sharp, to the point where running a fingernail up the blade will find absolutely no dents. Even the tiniest knick renders the knife unfit for use, requiring it to be sharpened, a time consuming job. The reason for this is so that the blade will slide into the neck without causing even the slightest tear, meaning it cuts straight through the arteries without obstruction, rendering the animal unconscious as explained above.

In contrast, stunning animals with electric bolts to the brain has been shown to be effective in less than 3/4 cases, meaning that the other quarter of animals die in terrible pain due to shoddy slaughtering techniques.
It's quite disingenuous of the writer of that article to attack religious slaughter without even mentioning that non-religious methods are often just as bad if not worse for the animal in terms of pain caused.

[kdgamz]

its pretty similar to Islam, a very sharp blade must be used and the slaughter must be quick so that the animal doesnt feel anything

[Cianyx]

Non-religious methods are infinitely more inhumane if we are going down this route. Whilst PETA can go suck a fat one, they've got an undercover video on their website showing conditions of a typical slaughterhouse. Somehow I don't think getting skinned alive or throat slit with a chainsaw is a particularly pleasing experience. Contrary to popular belief, factory farms do not utilise knockout gas or electric shots. It's always a boltgun to the head

[Souljette_93]

It is best to understand how we conduct slaughtering ( topic is complex, but this is how I simplified it).  We have our morals.

(1)-We must first call upon Allah's name ( this is essential)

(2)- the knife used for slaughter must be extremely sharp, and with it, a deep swift cut is done instantaneously, so that the animal does not feel any pain. ( through the neck)

(3)-the blood should be drained completely before the head is removed.

And yes kdgamz it is similar if not identical, otherwise, it would not be permissible for us to eat from their meat.

[QuantumJG]

Atheists who criticise religion are constantly being told we have missed the point and religion is really about compassion and kindness. It is only a handful of extremists and fundamentalists who "misunderstand" faith and use it for cruel ends, we are told with a wagging finger. But here's an example where most members of a religion choose to do something pointlessly cruel, and even the moderates demand "respect" for their "views". Their faith makes them prioritise pleasing an invisible supernatural being over the screaming of actual living creatures. Doesn't this suggest that faith itself – the choice to believe something in the total absence of evidence – is a danger that can lead you up needlessly nasty paths?

Finally someone has said something that actually makes sense?

I just wanted to add:

How do we know that Westerners aren't also killing animals inhumanely themselves? What euphemisms we are  fed by our farmers?

[taiga]

You should see what they do to get beef in India ....

[darren94]

d

[Yitzi_K]

Atheists who criticise religion are constantly being told we have missed the point and religion is really about compassion and kindness. It is only a handful of extremists and fundamentalists who "misunderstand" faith and use it for cruel ends, we are told with a wagging finger. But here's an example where most members of a religion choose to do something pointlessly cruel, and even the moderates demand "respect" for their "views". Their faith makes them prioritise pleasing an invisible supernatural being over the screaming of actual living creatures. Doesn't this suggest that faith itself – the choice to believe something in the total absence of evidence – is a danger that can lead you up needlessly nasty paths?

Finally someone has said something that actually makes sense?

It would make sense if it was actually true that religious slaughter was more painful than other methods…

[QuantumJG]

Yitzi how can you prove that this method is less painful than other methods.

[Mr Edwards]

I'm curious, are Jews allowed to eat Halal meat? I've heard from numerous sources saying that Muslims are allowed to eat Kosher meat. Ideally, their the same things, right?

[MuggedByReality]

Now let's get something straight: Kosher slaughter is scientifically proven to be the most humane form of animal slaughter out there. This is because the knife first slices through the arteries supplying blood to the brain, and the instant loss of blood supply causes the animal to lose consciousness almost the moment it comes into contact with the knife. Now I'm sure you all know from cuts you may have experienced that the pain doesn't actually kick in for a few moments. In this case of kosher slaughter, by the time the pain begins, the animal is already unconscious and therefore doesn't feel it.

I can't speak for halal, but I do know quite a bit about kosher slaughter. In order for an animal to be kosher, the knife used must be perfectly sharp, to the point where running a fingernail up the blade will find absolutely no dents. Even the tiniest knick renders the knife unfit for use, requiring it to be sharpened, a time consuming job. The reason for this is so that the blade will slide into the neck without causing even the slightest tear, meaning it cuts straight through the arteries without obstruction, rendering the animal unconscious as explained above.

In contrast, stunning animals with electric bolts to the brain has been shown to be effective in less than 3/4 cases, meaning that the other quarter of animals die in terrible pain due to shoddy slaughtering techniques.
It's quite disingenuous of the writer of that article to attack religious slaughter without even mentioning that non-religious methods are often just as bad if not worse for the animal in terms of pain caused.

Ok. Yes, the writer can be disingenuous, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt