Mother of 5 to be hanged for insulting Muhammed

[stonecold]

yeah, it is a joke.  i don't follow this stuff all that much, but islaam does seem to be the main culprit.  (if there are any bad examples of jewish or christian incidents then please let me know)

i think it is a shame because i honestly believe that fundamentally all religions aim to improve society, but then people take it too far and it ends up being the opposite.

i really cannot stand the catholic church for example, with their whole stance on contraception, rape and abortion, massive wealth which they won't donate to improving poverty, priests and marriage, homosexuality etc.  but locally, i often had to go to masses for relatives or with school, and the small parish communities do a lot of good such as fundraising and raising important issues.  they are pretty tight knit and very friendly and accepting environments.  and all cultures and religions are welcome at mass.

also, whilst some priests are sadly unable to control their innate animal desires, most of them are very friendly and very nice people.  the one at my primary school was a really good guy from the few times i have spoken to him.

[Chavi]

it happens all the time with this religion, you cannot deny that.. not to mention other religions have problems on a different scale too.
religion has a disgusting side, again cannot deny, i feel no need to be descriptive ether in my above - i simply state a fact along with my opinion.

All human beings are capable of cruelty. You get zealots everywhere. I doubt that mainstream religious observance facilitates extremism.

'mainstream religion' facilitates other forms of cruelty simply due to the ridiculous beliefs people have formed from it.
but thats not for this discussion.
yes i do agree everyone is capable of cruelty - just religion is in no way helping, it is making things so much worse. we cannot grow up as a society, and learn to be more tolerant of each other if religion is there to push as in the opposite direction. yay lets just execute you because we are extreme religious freaks with our ridiculous beliefs - they are religious, if there was no religion then they would not have such a reason to do so, this is completely immoral in a normal non-mentally damaged society (=mentally damaged from religions fucked up views in some places).
it is impossible to deny that religion does this.

and i apologise chavi, i do not have the ability to express myself in better words, this part of english was not my forte.

I agree with you to a large extent - that most religions foster a culture of 'exclusivity' and isolation from those outside the group.
I just don't believe that extremism and fanaticism are consequences of religion. Any poorly educated, impressionable person will find a cult/leader/religion/group to follow. The fact that many extremists are religious is but a consequence of the ubiquity of religious practices everywhere - not a result of religion per se.

[vexx]

i really cannot stand the catholic church for example, with their whole stance on contraception, rape and abortion, massive wealth which they won't donate to improving poverty, priests and marriage, homosexuality etc.  but locally, i often had to go to masses for relatives or with school, and the small parish communities do a lot of good such as fundraising and raising important issues.  they are pretty tight knit and very friendly and accepting environments.  and all cultures and religions are welcome at mass.

also, whilst some priests are sadly unable to control their innate animal desires, most of them are very friendly and very nice people.  the one at my primary school was a really good guy from the few times i have spoken to him.

i agree.
honestly, i've never really had anything against other religions but christianity which has made me furious since i was a little kid. these acts, when i read about them rarely (since i dont read/watch news) make me want horribly disgusting - gladly i dont read this often or else i'd be sick all the time.
aside from people taking the bible and other religious things literally or to an extreme, its not that bad... since it allows peple to play ignorant and feel safe knowing there is something on the other side, while some non-religious people are laughing at them but feeling terrified at the same time. what would you rather?
it makes me wish to be as stupid on those who cannot think outside their forced believes and believe in all the fairy-tales like i once did as a baby, but unfortunately i grew up like many - somehow many didn't.. yes there are many who find 'faith later', luckily they have an escape route from the horrible reality that may be 'death'

it has other benefits honestly, im just no in the best mood aha

edit, chavi, how did that extremist behaviour come about then? did they just decide to be like that ..? if so why? if you see the actual why its because of a religious belief. people going too far, religious caused it, but obviously its that kind of person that actually got sucked into those attitudes.
that kind of person + religious = hell
if there is no + religious, how much would we reduce hell by? a lot perhaps?

[Chavi]

@stonecold. Right, even if there are many offenders, no group is entirely monolithic.

@vexx. You have hotheads everywhere. In regards to the Pakistan issue, I don't think you can disregard cultural and tribal issues, any more than you can disregard religious ones. Saying that the Taliban commits its crimes as a result of religion ignores the historical nuances of the region. You would have to delve deeper into the entire culture of warlords, animosity between Pashtun tribes, and the nearly identical way of life that dominates the rural areas and predates Islam.
Yes - religious zealots are principle offenders. My argument is, that if religion never existed, fanatics would find something else to fight in the name of. Religion doesn't cause people to commit crimes. People cause people to commit crimes.

[Chavi]

"They declined to drink, saying that as a Christian she had contaminated it. They pressured her to convert to Islam and, goaded, she said she did not believe Muhammad was a true prophet. For that remark she has been sentenced to death"
From what i know according to Islam, sentencing her to death is wrong. If she did not believe muhammad was a true prophet then its her choice. In Islam there is no such a thing as forcing a person to become a muslim. This is jst the work of a few ignorant ppl ruining the name of Islam. The first part is false aswell, jst cause a christian offered water it doesnt mean its contaminated- this is jst cuming from their stupidity and is by no means related to islam.

btw samiira, thank you for saying this.

[chrisjb]

on a slightly related note, we can all see tomorrow morning's top headline six hours before everyone else (actualy, second headline- right after the cover stories of assange) http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pakistan-suicide-bomb-attack-kills-50-injures-100/story-e6frg6so-1225966707633

[samiira]

There would've been a lot more to the story for even in Pakistan for the courts to sentence her to death

yeh dats wat i think aswell

[Chavi]

Attributing the wave of terrorism within Pakistan solely to the US is terribly naive. Of course one would need to take into account the US occupation of Afghanistan across the border as a factor in the current wave of violence - but Pakistan too is fighting the Taliban, and battling a wave of radical Islamism within Saudi-funded Madrassas. Playing the 'blame-America' card is now so common a justification, that I'm thinking of creating a wiki article for it under the 'logical fallacy' title.

A substantial portion of homegrown terrorism in Europe emanates from Pakistan (the London bombers were radicalized there), and lets not forget the callous Mumbai massacre perpetrated by Paki terrorists, that played on India vs Pakistan tensions, rather than as a reaction to American interests.

The Pakistan government has practically lost control of the entire situation, to the point that it actually requested US support. Portraying the US as a murder machine killing innocent civilians in drone attacks is simply untrue. These attacks are coordinated with Pakistan's military (and lets forget the list of massacres committed by them against their own people as well).
To be a Christian or another religious minority, or even a Muslim of the wrong description, may be to live a life of fear, danger and constant, systemic discrimination in Pakistan (e.g. Ahmadis).
And we haven't even touched the unsafe nuclear arsenal that might end up in the hands of terrorists.

I disagree with many aspects of US policy, but your comments seem like an attempt to shift the blame away from Pakistan's internal problems onto a commonly used scapegoat.

Also I have to ask: for arguments sake, let say that the only cause of suicide bombings in Pakistan is America. Why the hell are the terrorists exploding themselves in Pakistani cities, and killing fellow Muslims?

[stonecold]

Those predator drone attacks are dodgy.

The US uses these automated planes which have cameras that are supposed to detect the faces of terrorists, and then they send a missile to attack the target.  The problem is, the imaging devices hardly do a good job of picking out the right people.

[Chavi]

Drones aren't automatic kill machines. There's a person on the other end, sitting behind a computer screen and launching the attack. In terms of warfare, I see no difference between a drone and a Jet fighter - as the aircraft is still controlled by someone. The only difference of course, is that if a drone is shot down - nobody dies. Seems like an expedient alternative to getting a pilot up there.

[stonecold]

Drones aren't automatic kill machines. There's a person on the other end, sitting behind a computer screen and launching the attack. In terms of warfare, I see no difference between a drone and a Jet fighter - as the aircraft is still controlled by someone. The only difference of course, is that if a drone is shot down - nobody dies. Seems like an expedient alternative to getting a pilot up there.

I think you are right.  I saw it in this doco.  One of the more interesting things I have ever viewed.  I recommend watching it.

It is Called '10 Ways to Kill Bin Laden' and outlines each of then 10 failed US plots to capture and kill Osama Bin Laden.

http://www.movie-film-links.com/linkshow.php?gid=14755&vid=67151&part=1

Edit: There is a part on Predator Drone attacks in it.

[samiira]

if a drone is shot down - nobody dies.

drone strikes last year in jan took lives of 700 civilians - http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/02/us-killed-700-civilians-in-pakistan-drone-strikes-in-2009/

On June 22, the US struck at a house officials called a “suspected militant hideout,” burying a few locals inside. When others rushed to the scene to rescue them, they launched another missile, killing 13 apparently innocent Pakistanis. When they held a funeral procession on June 23, the US hit that too, ostensibly on the belief that Baitullah Mehsud might be among the mourners. He wasn’t, but the attack killed at least 80 more people” . - http://theredphoenixapl.org/2010/10/28/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-kill-majority-civilian-populace/

in 2010 there were 106 drone strikes  took lives of max 857 innocent civilians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

[TrueLight]

pakistan too is fighting the taliban

yeah and their intelligence service ISI is really doing well...

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=37224

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1KJRC3GhCM&feature=related

yep also check the links this guy has in the article (actually some of the links in it are the same links as yours samiira)
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=559

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATn6FyJXdMI&feature=channel

[Chavi]

Ok. Here's a Pakistani news source covering the story (to get the non-Western slant)
http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/24/protesters-oppose-pardon-for-asia-bibi.html

LAHORE, Pakistan: Around 250 people staged a demonstration in the central Pakistani city of Lahore on Wednesday, warning the president not to pardon a Christian woman sentenced to death for insulting Islam. ”We are ready to sacrifice our life for the Prophet Muhammad,” chanted protesters in Lahore _ many of whom were students from Islamic seminaries in the city.

Nothing new here. I agree with your point on media bias - but there's a difference between distorting the facts, and taking an 'angle' on the story.

I checked the wiki link on Aafia Siddiqui. She has some serious charges laid against her, such as assault and attempted murder of U.S. nationals, officers, and employees; Needless to say, US civilians are prosecuted by the same yardstick in local courts for such crimes. I don't think this was a case of race-hate or religious xenophobia, unlike the issue in Pakistan.

I have my own qualms with media bias. Needless to say, if the same story is reported on Al Jazeera, CNN, The Age, Hurriyet, Xinhua and Jpost, you can safely conclude that there is some element of truth in it.

[Chavi]

if a drone is shot down - nobody dies.

drone strikes last year in jan took lives of 700 civilians - http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/02/us-killed-700-civilians-in-pakistan-drone-strikes-in-2009/

THIS! innocent people are being killed which then resort to terrorism. I think unfortunately y'all are being influenced by what cnn, fox news and the heavily media tells you.

On June 22, the US struck at a house officials called a “suspected militant hideout,” burying a few locals inside. When others rushed to the scene to rescue them, they launched another missile, killing 13 apparently innocent Pakistanis. When they held a funeral procession on June 23, the US hit that too, ostensibly on the belief that Baitullah Mehsud might be among the mourners. He wasn’t, but the attack killed at least 80 more people” . - http://theredphoenixapl.org/2010/10/28/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-kill-majority-civilian-populace/

in 2010 there were 106 drone strikes  took lives of max 857 innocent civilians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

THIS! innocent civilians are being killed which then resort to terrorism.

How does explain suicide bombings in Pakistani cities? The link provided earlier focused solely on internal strife. Muslims killing Muslims on the streets of Karachi and Lahore.