Mother of 5 to be hanged for insulting Muhammed

[sam99]

"But what is religion but an interpretation of laws and moral codes by man?"

I don't agree - I will not speak for Judaism or Christianity but I can tell you that the Quran is regarded as the LITERAL word of God and in that lies the difference. The interpretations that you speak of are man-made and yes that is where the problem lies. Which priest or Rabbi can not be guilty of a little arrogance and change the emphasis of 'divine' law to generate authority- are they all not in one way or another indulging in vanity and pride? This is where Islam affords the opportunity to bring back the Muslims from the threshold of self-destruction. Because they can go back and read the Divine Word again and reassess the moral code that they practice. One of the greatest sins in Islam is to tell a lie. It is a grave sin and yet how many times do people all over the world lie? How many times do Muslims lie? What simple code of conduct do Muslims adhere to? one that they have contrived for themselves and fits their materialist desires to acquire wealth unashamedly.But I guess that goes for most people nowadays. A man came to the Prophet (SWS) and asked for a simple solution to go to Heaven - and the reply was- simply tell the truth always and never be afraid of where the truth will lead you. Telling the truth makes you strong and fearless and makes you see the world and materialism as petty.

 Interestingly the Jews say- if everyday for a few minutes believe that you will die- and test your faith- if you want to stay a little longer than you have failed. Until the day that your desire to meet God is greater than your desire to stay in this world will you have passed the test of faith. They too talk of a life that becomes meaningful and takes you to a level that is in complete submission to a Creator (Adonai Emet).

[Kotza]

" If Australia ever embraces religious law I'm out of here."



Lol dude in Dandenong the public pools enforced an ISLAMIC policy during Ramadan. Women had to cover up all skin between 8am and 6pm... a guy with a muslim wife who lives in Dandy told me last night at work, i couldnt believe it... made me sick.

An Islamic law was successfully enforced in AUSTRALIA... shits gone wack man!!!!

Ramadan is an Islamic ritual, hence ONLY Islamic people should follow it. To force someone to participate in this ritual (regardless of their religion or non-religion) means you do not respect those people.

Having said that, if you read the articles provided by samiira. You will find that a lot of the Muslims don't like this at all.

I was contemplating not posting it as the information presented came from a 27 y.o labourer lol, so i do apologise for the incorrect information, i was only saying it as i heard it.

And yes i know many muslims would be opposed to it, im not having a go at muslims but rather Australian politics being bitches.

And whether it is an arm or the whole body, 23 hours or 5 minutes, religious rules should not be implemented in a non-islamic state, especially an advanced western one.

[QuantumJG]

so much ignorance in this thread,
sharia law can coexist peacefully with secular law. The empirical evidence shows, agian and again, that crimes rates are lowest in sharia law districts, but this is not to suggest that non-muslims must have sharia imposed on them, they will be permitted to drink alcohol, and worship their own religion, they have their rights.

Care to explain. According to this it would take us a step backward in striving for equality of the sexes.

I'm going to have to disagree with the two posts above me. If I were to go to live in a Muslim country, I would be considered a Kafir, a dhimmi and subjected to servitude under a religion that I don't believe in.

How do you explain the fact that 800,000 Jews were driven out of the Arab world in 1948 by Arab pogroms? How do you explain the mass exodus of Christians from the Middle east over the past 50 years? If empirical evidence shows anything, it's that if you're not Muslim and you live in a Muslim country, your life is in danger.

I'm going to disagree with them too.

Chavi is correct! If you live in a Muslim country and are not Muslim your life is in danger (watch "not without my daughter").

The thing is that in the middle east there is extremism and the people are indifferent to it. I don't know whether because it's like an 1984 scenario (i.e. where you must worship these extremists or die). I feel that Muslims are trying to morph the western world into it's own world. Atheists like me would have our beliefs muted and there would potentially be a want to rid the world of atheism.

[samiira]

Care to explain. According to this it would take us a step backward in striving for equality of the sexes.

I believe we've been through this debate of women rights. http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,34312.msg360835.html#msg360835
Islam gives women more right then any1 else. LoL i honsetly dnno were u dig up these articles from. I am tellin u there's plenty of articles like this around the net. It doesnt surprise me in the least. But i wud choose to ignore them. If u want to know Islam - use the Quran/Hadith. If u were to compare womens rights in islam to any other religion or law u would see a big gap.
If u can be bothered readin all this, by all means read it, u will b surprised.

In regarding the birth of females

The Catholic Bible states explicitly that:
"The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).

Jewish Rabbis made it an obligation on Jewish men to produce offspring in order to propagate the race. At the same time, they did not hide their clear preference for male children : "It is well for those whose children are male but ill for those whose are female", "At the birth of a boy, all are joyful...at the birth of a girl all are sorrowful", and "When a boy comes into the world, peace comes into the world... When a girl comes, nothing comes."7

the Quran considers the birth of a female as a gift and a blessing from God, the same as the birth of a male.
In order to wipe out all the traces of female infanticide in the nascent Muslim society, Prophet Muhammad promised those who were blessed with daughters of a great reward if they would bring them up kindly:

"He who is involved in bringing up daughters, and accords benevolent treatment towards them, they will be protection for him against Hell-Fire" (Bukhari and Muslim).

"Whoever maintains two girls till they attain maturity, he and I will come on the Resurrection Day like this; and he joined his fingers" (Muslim).


Regarding education of women

The heart of Judaism is the Torah, the law. However, according to the Talmud, "women are exempt from the study of the Torah."
Some Jewish Rabbis firmly declared "Let the words of Torah rather be destroyed by fire than imparted to women", and "Whoever teaches his daughter Torah is as though he taught her obscenity"

The attitude of St. Paul in the New Testament is not brighter:
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
And what islam says:

"Allah has heard and accepted the statement of the woman who pleads with you (the Prophet) concerning her husband and carries her complaint to Allah, and Allah hears the arguments between both of you for Allah hears and sees all things...." (58:1).
A woman in the Quranic conception has the right to argue even with the Prophet of Islam himself. No one has the right to instruct her to be silent. She is under no obligation to consider her husband the one and only reference in matters of law and religion.

Regarding wifes property

The Jewish tradition regarding the husband's role towards his wife stems from the conception that he owns her as he owns his slave.

"How can a woman have anything; whatever is hers belongs to her husband? What is his is his and what is hers is also his...... Her earnings and what she may find in the streets are also his. The household articles, even the crumbs of bread on the table, are his. Should she invite a guest to her house and feed him, she would be stealing from her husband..." (San. 71a, Git. 62a)


Islam, since the seventh century C.E., has granted married women the independent personality which the Judaeo-Christian West had deprived them until very recently.
The husband is not allowed any share in his wife's property except what she offers him with her free consent. 29 The Quran has stated its position on this issue quite clearly:

"And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, Of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it and enjoy it with right good cheer" (4:4)

The wife's property and earnings are under her full control and for her use alone since her, and the children's, maintenance is her husband's responsibility. 30 No matter how rich the wife might be, she is not obliged to act as a co-provider for the family unless she herself voluntarily chooses to do so. Spouses do inherit from one another. Moreover, a married woman in Islam retains her independent legal personality and her family name. An American judge once commented on the rights of Muslim women saying: " A Muslim girl may marry ten times, but her individuality is not absorbed by that of her various husbands. She is a solar planet with a name and legal personality of her own."

[samiira]

Chavi is correct! If you live in a Muslim country and are not Muslim your life is in danger (watch "not without my daughter").

The thing is that in the middle east there is extremism and the people are indifferent to it. I don't know whether because it's like an 1984 scenario (i.e. where you must worship these extremists or die).

Force was never used to compel people to accept Islam.  There are some who have made a career spreading this false accusation against Islam, saying:  “Islam is a religion that was spread by the sword.”   But this is a grave misconception, because the Prophet, rather Islam itself, does not allow the forcing of Islam on anyone or compulsion in religion.  If one reads the Quran, and they will find this teaching absolutely clear.

Islam commands the Muslims to be just with people of other faiths, whether they be Jews, Christians, or pagans. Islam calls us to treat them kindly and try to win their hearts as long as they do not take up arms against us. Allah says: “Allah forbids you not with regard to those who neither fight against you for your faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them, for Allah loves those who are just.” [Sûrah al-Mumtahanah: 9-10]

“There is no compulsion in religion”  [The Quran 2:256] 

The Qur’ân commands us to argue with them in the best manner. Allah says: “Argue with the People of the Scripture in the best manner except those among them who act oppressively. Say: We believe in the revelation that has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is one, and it is to Him we submit ourselves as Muslims.” [Sûrah al-`Ankabût: 46]

Some of the rights of the non-Muslim citizens of the Islamic State include: 

1.   It is forbidden to harm them. The Prophet Muhammad said, “Whoever kills a person at treaty with us, he will never smell the fragrance of Paradise, even though its fragrance can be sensed from a distance of 40 years.”  This is from their rights as citizens of the Islamic state.
2.   Second, from their rights is to protect their wealth and honor.
3.   Third, from their rights, is to leave them free to worship in their religion and houses of worship, and have freedom in their personal affairs

[Chavi]

samiira, I see this is thread will end up as an "interpretation vs practice" debate.
I don't doubt that the Quran has some rational ideas within it, as it was largely based off the Bible. The fact is, we hear none of this being put into practice.

Remember a few years ago when the Pope criticized Islam as not being a 'religion of peace', and that set off a wave of violence in Jordan and Pakistan that ended up killing bystanders?
Women are still treated like cattle in Saudi Arabia, and Muslim mujahadeen perpetrated the Darfur genocide. Apparently Israel is mentioned as the land of the Jews in the Quran. If everything in the Quran was taken so literally, why do we only see continuing barbarity and violence from Muslims? Why, according to wikileaks, is Saudi Arabia the principle source of funds for global Sunni terrorism?

[QuantumJG]

Chavi is correct! If you live in a Muslim country and are not Muslim your life is in danger (watch "not without my daughter").

The thing is that in the middle east there is extremism and the people are indifferent to it. I don't know whether because it's like an 1984 scenario (i.e. where you must worship these extremists or die).

Force was never used to compel people to accept Islam.  There are some who have made a career spreading this false accusation against Islam, saying:  “Islam is a religion that was spread by the sword.”   But this is a grave misconception, because the Prophet, rather Islam itself, does not allow the forcing of Islam on anyone or compulsion in religion.  If one reads the Quran, and they will find this teaching absolutely clear.

Islam commands the Muslims to be just with people of other faiths, whether they be Jews, Christians, or pagans. Islam calls us to treat them kindly and try to win their hearts as long as they do not take up arms against us. Allah says: “Allah forbids you not with regard to those who neither fight against you for your faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them, for Allah loves those who are just.” [Sûrah al-Mumtahanah: 9-10]

“There is no compulsion in religion”  [The Quran 2:256] 

The Qur’ân commands us to argue with them in the best manner. Allah says: “Argue with the People of the Scripture in the best manner except those among them who act oppressively. Say: We believe in the revelation that has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is one, and it is to Him we submit ourselves as Muslims.” [Sûrah al-`Ankabût: 46]

Some of the rights of the non-Muslim citizens of the Islamic State include: 

1.   It is forbidden to harm them. The Prophet Muhammad said, “Whoever kills a person at treaty with us, he will never smell the fragrance of Paradise, even though its fragrance can be sensed from a distance of 40 years.”  This is from their rights as citizens of the Islamic state.
2.   Second, from their rights is to protect their wealth and honor.
3.   Third, from their rights, is to leave them free to worship in their religion and houses of worship, and have freedom in their personal affairs

Well then the people must have a pretty crap definition of what the "best manner" is.

You guys say that Islam promotes harmony, yet we only Muslims behaving in a manner that is the polar opposite to harmony.

[Mao]

You guys say that Islam promotes harmony, yet we only Muslims behaving in a manner that is the polar opposite to harmony.

That's a bit ignorant imo, not all are bad.

[taiga]

Anyway, I would hesitate to lay the blame on Islam, Christianity or Judaism just because the followers of these religions decide to be come immoral. No religion instructs Man to do wrong, it is Man's free will. For the Muslims, it is clear that because we are Muslims- we are told that the punishment for doing wrong is greater for us than for the non-Muslims- since we should have known better.

So why is discrimination so entrenched and legitimised in the Muslim world?

Fuck your rationale.

[ninwa]

You guys say that Islam promotes harmony, yet we only Muslims behaving in a manner that is the polar opposite to harmony.

Please do not make blatantly incorrect generalisations like this. It is contributing nothing to the discussion.

[/0]

so much ignorance in this thread,
sharia law can coexist peacefully with secular law. The empirical evidence shows, agian and again, that crimes rates are lowest in sharia law districts, but this is not to suggest that non-muslims must have sharia imposed on them, they will be permitted to drink alcohol, and worship their own religion, they have their rights.

Sharia law is outdated and inhumane, and I see no reason why a free secular society should choose to incorporate it. Who's gonna sit by and watch someone get their hands amputated for theft, or watch a muslim homosexual get stoned to death? In addition, what's to stop a muslim who has broken sharia law from claiming that they were never really a 'true muslim' to begin with?

It is a surreal, mad world where how one lives is dictated by their invisible friend in the sky.

Come to think of it, it would be a brilliant premise for a horror movie. Or a comedy.

[Kotza]

so much ignorance in this thread,
sharia law can coexist peacefully with secular law. The empirical evidence shows, agian and again, that crimes rates are lowest in sharia law districts, but this is not to suggest that non-muslims must have sharia imposed on them, they will be permitted to drink alcohol, and worship their own religion, they have their rights.

Sharia law is outdated and inhumane, and I see no reason why a free secular society should choose to incorporate it. Who's gonna sit by and watch someone get their hands amputated for theft, or watch a muslim homosexual get stoned to death? In addition, what's to stop a muslim who has broken sharia law from claiming that they were never really a 'true muslim' to begin with?

It is a surreal, mad world where how one lives is dictated by their invisible friend in the sky.

Come to think of it, it would be a brilliant premise for a horror movie. Or a comedy.

fuck oath

now thats a response +1

[fady_22]

Samiira, those small excerpts from each respective holy book do not reflect the general view of women in each religion.
 
I can find so much in the Quran that shows that men are considered superior to women in the Quran.

Searching "women in the quran" in google yields this as the first result: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/women/long.html
This is interesting as well: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/010-women-worth-less.htm

Also, how do you explain the spread of Islam other than through military conquests? And the widespread symbol of the sword? Islam, at least partially, owes its spread to conquering tribes and causing the inhabitants to convert (if not with the threat of death, because of the jizya-- the taxes that had to be paid by non-muslims to the muslims). Read: http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html
And I have experienced this intolerance first hand (being an Iraqi Christian).

And even if you argue that Islam does not condone this intolerance, it obviously has influenced it in far too many people.

[Chavi]

Anyway, I would hesitate to lay the blame on Islam, Christianity or Judaism just because the followers of these religions decide to be come immoral. No religion instructs Man to do wrong, it is Man's free will. For the Muslims, it is clear that because we are Muslims- we are told that the punishment for doing wrong is greater for us than for the non-Muslims- since we should have known better.

So why is discrimination so entrenched and legitimised in the Muslim world?

Fuck your rationale.

hahahaha

[Chavi]

You guys say that Islam promotes harmony, yet we only Muslims behaving in a manner that is the polar opposite to harmony.

That's a bit ignorant imo, not all are bad.

But a number substantial enough to cause 2 international wars, tens of UN resolutions, tens of thousands of innocent murders and hundreds of terror attacks from London to New York to Tel Aviv to Bali.

Even if the percentage of extremists in Islam turned out to be something small like, 5%, that's still a frighteningly huge number:
1.3 billion x 0.05 = 6.5 million. Twice the population of Melbourne committed to terror.