Mother of 5 to be hanged for insulting Muhammed

[Souljette_93]

Your logic is flawed. Does getting nothing out of an act mean that the act warrants the death penalty? I don't understand what that has anything to do with it.
Should I be able to sentence you to death for saying something bad about my boyfriend? (He is my beloved after all!)
Should Orthodox Jews like Yitzi be able to sentence you to death for saying God rather than G-d?

Sorry ninwa, your logic is flawed. All of the questions that you ask I would have to respond with a NO! ( as for Yitzi, I believe his writing of God as G-d is due to religious reasons, and good for him for applying what he believes in)

If you truly understood how the position which the prophet holds to us, you weren't be saying this.

What does warrants a death penalty?
Whatever our faith rules it out to be so. Sorry, i know this is a general statement and possibly not satisfying for you, but it is basically that it a nutshell.

And understand one more thing. A death Penalty is HUGE. So whatever does warrant a death penalty must contain wisdoms behind it, and cannot be just given out so easily with no valid reason. And Every penalty we have in our faith ( or any other Abrahamic faith for the matter) is obviously for the greater good, for ourselves, and for humanity. (Now perhaps it is we we differ)

No. Australian law will never respect that because under Australian law, not only has the death penalty been abolished, but all avenues for reinstating the penalty have also been closed.

I know that, I don't like it, but what can I say? If we had the option to return it, I would vote for it.

It is interesting how you say "and even" rather than "and only". I can only presume you are suggesting that all Muslims would be subject to Shariah law if it were introduced in Australia. What about the Muslims that don't want to be?

haha no, you understood me differently, read what i said again. I meant even if the Shariah law was to be established, it would only apply for the Muslims who want to be ruled by it, which you can even find some Muslims not taking part of it. * this is based on an article I was reading before..

People react negatively because sentencing someone to death for exercising their freedom of speech is a heinous thing to do in the culture of this country. What does it matter whether that someone is Muslim or not? They are still human, and still Australians, and therefore they should be the subject of our concern.

?

Freedom of speech which goes beyond respect and infringements of other beliefs, mostly that of hate, is okay with you ninwa? Sorry, but I do not want to be included in that.

And just for the matter, i do agree with the Freedom of Speech, speak your mind, but don't go against other people's belief that breaks the code of respect.

[QuantumJG]

i think the most disturbing issue here is the way in which some muslims apply the somewhat, uncivilized and savage laws in their religion. All im saying is, people dont get hung for jesus or moses jokes. As more of Asia and Africa's population becomes muslim, this type of savage and primitive behavior becomes more common, and most disturbingly, overlooked.

But one can understand why it is so overlooked in the western world. Take the dutch film maker would made a film about violence towrds women in islam.....he was stabbed in broad daylight on its release. No one wants to talk about the way the violence in islam is spreading throughout the world. And its examples such as the one above which really show why..

hmm...what an intresting and peaceful video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=illF1vt5g1Q

I think I'm going to be sick! *throws up*

[Souljette_93]

The law of respect should be applied-tolerance. If you want harmony on this earth then we cannot be on each others throats-you may have different views, but that doesn't mean you should try to enforce it on everybody.

And it shouldn't be done under the banner of "free speech". Personally that's all a joke. You cannot have free speech that contains "hate speech". And speaking negatively about the prophet is purely based on hate, ignorance and bigotry.

I beg you pardon? The most hypocritical piece I've ever read.

You demand respect and tolerance, yet we cannot express our opinion of disbelief. You call my belief (free speech) a joke, yet we cannot call your Allah a joke. You call our rational reasoning 'hate speech', yet we cannot call your irrational thoughts ignorant. You say we shouldn't try to enforce our belief on everyone, yet you are willing to support an Islamic belief that anyone who speaks against Allah should be executed?

I don't even know what to say right now.

What is so hypocritical Mao? If you had a look of what I define as freedom of speech, than that is of free of any "hate speech". So go ahead, speak your mind, I don't want you speaking negatively on my faith nor my Prophet. Oh and btw-What is your definition of "free speech"? Can that also contain "hate speech?"

Allah is not exclusively for me, it's for you and whole of humanity. I am aware that you don't believe in God, nor does ninwa, but Allah is the same lord as YHWH or whatever other religions call Him.

-What are my irrational thoughts?

Besides, you make no sense when you say this:

You say we shouldn't try to enforce our belief on everyone, yet you are willing to support an Islamic belief that anyone who speaks against Allah should be executed?

I have a right to support my belief, just as everybody else has their right to believe..i,e, in Christianity.. Judaism..Being executed for speaking against the Al-Mighty is common to all beliefs.

SubhanAllah. Now everybody is turning against me and turning into a fight.

@ninwa-no i never watched south park.

[QuantumJG]

The title of this thread is misleading. This women did not 'insult' the prophet, merely disagreed with that he is a prophet and Islam altogether. Like many of you here on this forum. I don't think saying that he was not a true prophet ( although regardless of what and who says, he is) can qualify as blasphemy, but anything more it would certainly would have.

1) What would be classified as "anything more"?

2) Do you believe true blasphemy warrants a death sentence? / Is that provided for in Shariah law?

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)
2)Yes. No doubt.

Can you understand my hostility towards Islam NOW!

Australia is a country where we never will impose the death penalty. NEVER!

So you tell us that we don't understand Islam yet when you explain sharia 'the purest' law to Islam it starts sounding like something I would expecting in a horror movie. You (muslims) want your freedom to speak, yet if someone speaks freely about their opinion towards you they can expect to die.

[onur369]

I am muslim myself but there are those people who always ruin it for others. Theres alot of extremists in the middle east that have to ruin it for the rest. Sharia law is not followed by many countries -.-

[Souljette_93]

The title of this thread is misleading. This women did not 'insult' the prophet, merely disagreed with that he is a prophet and Islam altogether. Like many of you here on this forum. I don't think saying that he was not a true prophet ( although regardless of what and who says, he is) can qualify as blasphemy, but anything more it would certainly would have.

1) What would be classified as "anything more"?

2) Do you believe true blasphemy warrants a death sentence? / Is that provided for in Shariah law?

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)
2)Yes. No doubt.

Can you understand my hostility towards Islam NOW!

Australia is a country where we never will impose the death penalty. NEVER!

So you tell us that we don't understand Islam yet when you explain sharia 'the purest' law to Islam it starts sounding like something I would expecting in a horror movie. You (muslims) want your freedom to speak, yet if someone speaks freely about their opinion towards you they can expect to die.

Mate, why are you refusing to understand? It is not as easy as "Just because you said  something  against about us, we are going to kill you"-Islam rejects that. It depends on what you are saying.

[ninwa]

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)

I don't understand how drawing a picture of Muhammed amounts to "hate speech".

[Mao]

Besides, you make no sense when you say this:

You say we shouldn't try to enforce our belief on everyone, yet you are willing to support an Islamic belief that anyone who speaks against Allah should be executed?

I have a right to support my belief, just as everybody else has their right to believe..i,e, in Christianity.. Judaism..Being executed for speaking against the Al-Mighty is common to all beliefs.

And I have a right to not be executed for things I do not believe in, such as Allah.


My belief is in skepticism, in free thinking, in free speech, in science. It appears my doubt and disagreement can be classified as 'hate' in your opinion. I apologize, that is my 'religion', and you should accept me for who I am, as I would accept you for who you are.

The reason why I am, and everyone else is arguing against you, is not that we dislike or hate you. It is because we have no inhibitions of what we say. I can say "Fuck the Bible, Mythbusters proved no one can walk on water" and have a constructive conversation with Christian or Catholic people, and I bet you the conversation will go along the line of agreeing to Mythbusters is not real science, Christianity promotes harmony, and whether or not Jesus walked on water doesn't matter to their belief.

The problem is your belief. You cannot accept any doubt or criticism of Islam or Muslims, not just this occasion, but on many occasions. We are not deliberating the attacks, we have voiced our disbelief and questioned the motives, you zealously interpret that as a personal attack and take it to your own hands that we are the enemies. If I say "Fuck the Halal system, scientific killing are more efficient", I bet you I will receive 30 death threads by sunset.

And for that reason precisely, is why every thread degrades into a religious contest, because we cannot even speak of your religion unless it's praising it. That is the irrationality, that is the hypocrisy.

And no, Allah is not for me, not for humanity, and you cannot claim that because you don't have a right to impose it on others.

I represent a group of modern people who do not fear to be questioned, do not fear to question, and will do absolutely everything we can to question everything. And we will harshly reject and criticize anything that we do not believe in. Because after that, whatever we believe in are unshakable truths, we do not require obedience to some law or adoption of some sort of deity, because it innately make sense to us. If you believe this is a form of hatred towards you and your people, shame on you.

[Souljette_93]

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)

I don't understand how drawing a picture of Muhammed amounts to "hate speech".

Because you are not Muslim. You do not have the love and attachment to him as much as we do, nor do you know/understand of his meaning to us. It is clear hatred, pure,plain and simple.


Why does it matter for you so much that you must draw him? ( And that's not even to mention-drawn to make fun of, depicting an ugly picture which I don't ever want to see)

We don't draw pictures of Moses, God or anything else sacred.

[sam99]

I am sorry to see that free speech means you can hurt others by what you say.
Free speech is simply to give people the freedom to voice their opinions it does not mean that they abuse people and what people believe in or hold dear to them-including faith.

Has anyone heard of defamation laws?

Is Wikileaks allowed free speech? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

But really are you all out to get Islam? Ignorance and half-murdered ideas from the net cannot equate to knowledge from those that practice and keep it close to their hearts. Islam is growing exponentially. Why should it? If it was all so bad? In an age of technological advancement and after 9/11 how can religion that is so notorious become so popular?

I am a proud Muslim and really I have no idea myself...but something tells me that those who really want to find out about Islam come perilously close to being Muslims. Even if it is the guards at Guatanomo.

But this banter is amusing- I find so much anger/hate/logic being used here really quite interesting. I hope that you dwell on this subject and analyse it- something good always comes out of debate and discussion as long as you take care not to hurt anyone.

Souljette- there is no need to defend who you are and what you believe in. You should be proud of standing up for what you know is true

[Mao]

1) A direct attack, in any shape or form. ( i.e. Cartoon drawing, making movies ( like what hollands doing), mockery, saying any foul language towards him..please, i don't want to think of it)

I don't understand how drawing a picture of Muhammed amounts to "hate speech".

Because you are not Muslim. You do not have the love and attachment to him as much as we do, nor do you know/understand of his meaning to us. It is clear hatred, pure,plain and simple.


Why does it matter for you so much that you must draw him? ( And that's not even to mention-drawn to make fun of, depicting an ugly picture which I don't ever want to see)

We don't draw pictures of Moses, God or anything else sacred.

Yes we do, I see picture of Jesus in cartoons all the time. I see Moses all over Japanese cartoon. I don't see anyone trying to wipe Japan off the face of the earth.

But effectively, by allowing you into our society, respecting you means censoring ourselves. That is one of the core beliefs of modern western society, otherwise we wouldn't hear about Wikileaks on the news.

If I went to a muslim country, would they make changes to their core beliefs to accomodate me? I highly doubt the answer will be yes, but if the answer is no, by your own logic, you hate me and you do not respect me.

[QuantumJG]

I have a right to support my belief, just as everybody else has their right to believe..i,e, in Christianity.. Judaism..Being executed for speaking against the Al-Mighty is common to all beliefs.

SubhanAllah. Now everybody is turning against me and turning into a fight.

I'm sorry but I haven't heard of any Jewish people, christians, Catholics, etc. Ordering a death penalty because of blasphemy since, well the dark ages. I am more inclined to develop respect for these religions because at least I haven't heard any of them 'physically' attacking people who don't believe in them.

People are turning against you because you have shown that you would kill for your religion. Go and read about Jonestown, he killed people too.

[ninwa]

Because you are not Muslim. You do not have the love and attachment to him as much as we do, nor do you know/understand of his meaning to us. It is clear hatred, pure,plain and simple.

Therefore, to us, drawing a picture of him cannot possibly represent hate speech if we do not understand this "love and attachment" Muslims feel. For those of us who do not believe, a picture of Muhammed is the same as a picture of Jesus, God, etc.

If we understood that attachment, and then deliberately drew a picture anyway, that MIGHT be considered hate speech. (Even so, that is a highly tenuous link.)

But you yourself have said we don't.

[Souljette_93]

Do you know what's hate to me? Would be better asking.

Anything spoken negatively  that is directly abusing the prophet. And through out this thread I have tried to show that, yet you go ahead and interpret in your way.

I never asked you to praise the religion, it's not for you to do, I am simply asking for respect. There are many things in Christianity that I reject, but I not go around spreading hatred, an I am also very careful to say something which might cross the boundaries. Even you, you believe in no God, but I don't go attacking you, nor do I question your beliefs, I reject it, yet I have to respect it.

And as for me, I only try to defend my faith, that of which is abused.

Problem is not for me, the problem is you go and twist my words, take my words out of context, which is in reality, nothing new. ( something common to the world, the Media..) You are refusing to see it from the light which i present it, and only continue with your belief, then go on and turn the tables around to me. Never did I consider you an enemy.

I have my belief and you have yours.
 

[Mao]

Do you know what's hate to me? Would be better asking.

Anything spoken negatively  that is directly abusing the prophet. And through out this thread I have tried to show that, yet you go ahead and interpret in your way.

I never asked you to praise the religion, it's not for you to do, I am simply asking for respect. There are many things in Christianity that I reject, but I not go around spreading hatred, an I am also very careful to say something which might cross the boundaries. Even you, you believe in no God, but I don't go attacking you, nor do I question your beliefs, I reject it, yet I have to respect it.

And as for me, I only try to defend my faith, that of which is abused.

Problem is not for me, the problem is you go and twist my words, take my words out of context, which is in reality, nothing new. ( something common to the world, the Media..) You are refusing to see it from the light which i present it, and only continue with your belief, then go on and turn the tables around to me. Never did I consider you an enemy.

I have my belief and you have yours.
 

Very well, if you demand your respect, I demand mine. Specifically the ability to say anything I want to with or without regards to how someone else may interpret me. Anything less would be disrespectful. Can you do that for me?

That is my belief, and if you have a right to practice yours, I have a right to practice mine to the fullest. In fact, I will go buy a rifle and shoot anyone who refuses my ability to speak anything I want.