UMAT Tutoring?

[paulsterio]

Deleted

[burbs]

I'm not entirely sure how Enwiabe's new system works, but I think this board is for companies and discussion, and this link is for individuals.

[paulsterio]

I'm not entirely sure how Enwiabe's new system works, but I think this board is for companies and discussion, and this link is for individuals.

There's actually no UMAT category there

[burbs]

yeah sorry just realised. I think Russ has told Enwiabe.

[thushan]

Paul, personally I don't think this is a very good idea. You are treading very dangerous territory in providing UMAT tutoring, especially given the enormous weighting it has on people who want to do med, which is one course that arouses extreme emotions. You do need to realise that you are taking on a very dangerous nature of responsibility, because if ur potential students bomb out on UMAT based on advice given by you (that may be erroneous, given the secrecy of the UMAT), you are ultimately responsible. Also, you have to be extremely careful not to make any questions that vaguely resemble MedEntry's, because MedEntry has already taken companies to court over plagiarism. Finally, I question your timing of offering UMAT tutoring, given that we only got results a week ago, and (I know you don't mean it) it may come across as quite arrogant, given how bad people who may not have done so well feel.

VCE tutoring is fine, but UMAT tutoring is a very different kettle of fish.

I recommend not going through with this mate.

EDIT: I also don't really condone MedEntry's program either. Yes I did it, but I don't think it has helped me significantly.

[pi]

I recommend not going through with this mate.

+1, for the reasons Thushan mentioned above, and also the fact that it is very difficult to teach someone 'logic', no matter what percentile you get.

Maybe a single lecture may be the best approach if you do want to pass on your tips and strategies, which are obviously quite successful.

[Graphite]

Yea I agree running a lecture to go through everything including your planned questions and theory sessions would be great for all people

[paulsterio]

Alright guys, well I've thought about it and I understand what Thushan and Rohitpi are saying are right regarding the danger of UMAT tutoring, not only for students (which I will honestly feel bad for if I accidentally do give inaccurate information to) but also for myself in regards to legal issues, and also I get how I could be ultimately responsible if any students of mine "bomb out" no matter what the cause was, so for now I've decided to withdraw anything I've said earlier regarding UMAT tutoring

Finally, I question your timing of offering UMAT tutoring, given that we only got results a week ago, and (I know you don't mean it) it may come across as quite arrogant, given how bad people who may not have done so well feel.

That was absolutely unintended, so my apologies to anybody who was offended by my timing. I actually had never thought about that until Thushan pointed it out, I just chose now to write this post because, as we all know, IT'S HOLIDAYS and I had a little bit of spare time on my hands. So again, sorry if any offense was taken by anybody.

Maybe a single lecture may be the best approach if you do want to pass on your tips and strategies, which are obviously quite successful.

This is what I'll consider, I'll try and team up with a friend who did well on Section 2 and I'll try to do a "Connect Education" style lecture

Anyways, thanks guys, and sorry if I wasted any of your time

[paulsterio]

Anyways, just on the lighter side, that was my 444th post, I'm kinda scared now :\

[Lasercookie]

You do need to realise that you are taking on a very dangerous nature of responsibility, because if ur potential students bomb out on UMAT based on advice given by you (that may be erroneous, given the secrecy of the UMAT), you are ultimately responsible.

Looks like I was too slow in writing this up, but I still I think this is an interesting point.

I don't think he has that responsibility to guarantee a student a high score. 

I don't think any tutor has that responsibility. I don't believe a tutor that could truly guarantee someone to get a 99th percentile UMAT score or a 50 in whatever subject.

Aren't tutors just another person who explains the concepts required, and not someone who guarantees high scores?

Sure, UMAT tutoring directly relates to medicine, but so does methods/spesh. You need maths to get into the course (as far as I know anyway). Furthermore, you need that high ATAR as well. Couldn't a student expect that by just going to their tutor they will get a 50 in that subject. Of course that's an unreasonable expectation to place on their tutor.

I think the student has the responsibility to take control of their own learning, to approach things there own way (after taking into account different opinions), and to not blame someone else if they do not succeed. 

[pi]

Anyways, just on the lighter side, that was my 444th post, I'm kinda scared now :\

:O You've made 70 more posts than the second highest poster this week :O

[Lasercookie]

Anyways, just on the lighter side, that was my 444th post, I'm kinda scared now :\

:O You've made 70 more posts than the second highest poster this week :O

Make that 69 more posts than the second highest poster this week

edit: wait no, he went off and posted like two posts elsewhere.

[thushan]

You do need to realise that you are taking on a very dangerous nature of responsibility, because if ur potential students bomb out on UMAT based on advice given by you (that may be erroneous, given the secrecy of the UMAT), you are ultimately responsible.

Looks like I was too slow in writing this up, but I still I think this is an interesting point.

I don't think he has that responsibility to guarantee a student a high score. 

I don't think any tutor has that responsibility. I don't believe a tutor that could truly guarantee someone to get a 99th percentile UMAT score or a 50 in whatever subject.

Aren't tutors just another person who explains the concepts required, and not someone who guarantees high scores?

Sure, UMAT tutoring directly relates to medicine, but so does methods/spesh. You need maths to get into the course (as far as I know anyway). Furthermore, you need that high ATAR as well. Couldn't a student expect that by just going to their tutor they will get a 50 in that subject. Of course that's an unreasonable expectation to place on their tutor.

I think the student has the responsibility to take control of their own learning, to approach things there own way (after taking into account different opinions), and to not blame someone else if they do not succeed. 

You're right. However, the difference between VCE and UMAT is that VCE is relatively open in that we know what to expect in terms of exam technique and exam marking, whereas UMAT is highly secretive. Hence Paulsterio's advice has a higher danger of being erroneous, leading to finger-pointing. And yes, whilst the student is responsible for his/her own learning, it's still bad when it's as a result of erroneous advice in a test whose assessment is highly secret.

[shinny]

Alright guys, well I've thought about it and I understand what Thushan and Rohitpi are saying are right regarding the danger of UMAT tutoring, not only for students (which I will honestly feel bad for if I accidentally do give inaccurate information to) but also for myself in regards to legal issues, and also I get how I could be ultimately responsible if any students of mine "bomb out" no matter what the cause was, so for now I've decided to withdraw anything I've said earlier regarding UMAT tutoring

Finally, I question your timing of offering UMAT tutoring, given that we only got results a week ago, and (I know you don't mean it) it may come across as quite arrogant, given how bad people who may not have done so well feel.

That was absolutely unintended, so my apologies to anybody who was offended by my timing. I actually had never thought about that until Thushan pointed it out, I just chose now to write this post because, as we all know, IT'S HOLIDAYS and I had a little bit of spare time on my hands. So again, sorry if any offense was taken by anybody.

Maybe a single lecture may be the best approach if you do want to pass on your tips and strategies, which are obviously quite successful.

This is what I'll consider, I'll try and team up with a friend who did well on Section 2 and I'll try to do a "Connect Education" style lecture

Anyways, thanks guys, and sorry if I wasted any of your time

Being a current tutor, I'll give my perspective:
1. Legal issues shouldn't be a problem if you make your own questions up etc. Not particularly difficult for something like section 3, bit more tedious but possible for section 1. Still, I doubt MedEntry is going to pick on one-man operations like your's.
2. Inaccurate information? Being a English tutor which is about just as clear cut as something like the UMAT in many regards, I can comfortably say that it's quite difficult to do this. In both English and the UMAT, there's no clear right or wrong. There are rights and wrongs, but there's just many different rights, and many different wrongs. Given your scores, clearly you know some of these rights. Those people who want tutoring often just want reassurance and confidence and that's what I've tended to do with my tuition - by simply providing one set of right methods to them which I can reassure them will work. This sense of confidence is often one of the best things you can give someone heading into an exam. So no, unless you go bananas with your course structure, it's going to be quite difficult to give inaccurate information.
3. You shouldn't feel guilty if your students 'bomb out'. UMAT was never meant to be something which could be studied for. If every single one of your students aces the UMAT after coming to you, you're a fricken GOD. Even the likes of MedEntry can't get anywhere near that. No one can. For every student you tutor, there's always their side of it as well. Did they listen and follow your advice? Did they work hard enough themselves? Are they just 'naturally' not gifted enough? These are all beyond your control mostly. You'll never make it as a tutor if you beat yourself up over every student you've had who didn't do so great. As long as you've done your best, with the knowledge that what you've taught is in their best interests, you've paid your duty to your student - regardless of the outcome. I think you were hoping to do Medicine and the same applies to that when it comes to helping your patients, so learn this lesson soon with your potential students rather than future patients, otherwise Medicine's going to be impossible for you to deal with.
4. Still, UMAT's a bitch to teach. I considered it at one stage because like you, I thought I could teach it. I mean, I thought of fairly formalised ways of conceptually teaching it etcetc, similar to how I now run my English tuition now. However, despite whatever methods you may think of, you'll probably eventually realise that teaching UMAT isn't as efficacious as you first hoped. However, if you honestly think you have something to offer, then you can consider going ahead with this - the UMAT market out there could use something actually useful.

[taiga]

Should I change the title to "UMAT Tutoring?"
?

I do agree with Thushan with the questioning of timing of this ad's placement.

That said I don't think it's necessarily a problem with offering it as such, any tutor is ultimately partially responsible for their students performance (the level to which they are responsible varies heavily) so I think your argument may be valid against VCE tutoring as well (or invalid against both VCE/UMAT tutoring). There are many VCE subjects where an individual tutor's opinions may vary from the final assessor. I myself ran into this last year with an english tutor, who whilst was very experienced (ex-english teacher at several elite schools, past VCAA assessor, many students >40), gave me terrible marks for practice essays which in some cases ended up getting 10/10s from VCAA assessor. I ended up using those essays for the exam and got (what I think ) was a good score. For any subject which has answers which are up to interpretation I don't think the student should be looking to attain a set list of definite answers or methods, rather to just gain a better overall understanding and use that to your own advantage.

Just as a side note (directed at Thushan), it's probably best to take a post like that to PM (or in a separate thread), as I could imagine this getting nasty (and perhaps a bit unfair on Paul) if you two weren't mates and if Paul was more inclined to his original view.