English study score 2011 !

[ulbasour]

Didn't we already go through this?

[SPLIT] DO SAC SCORES MATTER FOR 47?

They HAVE to consider SAC scores to some extent...

I got somewhat crucified but what i say is from one of the executive examiners mouth - others who opposed me were simply guessing and fabricating opinion with out external credibility. Believe me or not, what i am saying is verbatim.

[jane1234]

Didn't we already go through this?

[SPLIT] DO SAC SCORES MATTER FOR 47?

They HAVE to consider SAC scores to some extent...

I got somewhat crucified but what i say is from one of the executive examiners mouth - others who opposed me were simply guessing and fabricating opinion with out external credibility. Believe me or not, what i am saying is verbatim.

Oh god I don't want to do this again.

Re: [SPLIT] DO SAC SCORES MATTER FOR 47?

^ How can someone with 59.5/60 on the exam only receive 46 if you DON'T take into account SACs?

I'm not trying to attack you, I just don't think you have substantial evidence to back up your claims.

[paulsterio]

Where do you guys get your information? Do you have any sources that we can look at? It just sounds a little bit far-fetched, not that I don't believe you, but I've just never heard this before

[ulbasour]

Didn't we already go through this?

[SPLIT] DO SAC SCORES MATTER FOR 47?

They HAVE to consider SAC scores to some extent...

I got somewhat crucified but what i say is from one of the executive examiners mouth - others who opposed me were simply guessing and fabricating opinion with out external credibility. Believe me or not, what i am saying is verbatim.

Oh god I don't want to do this again.

Re: [SPLIT] DO SAC SCORES MATTER FOR 47?

^ How can someone with 59.5/60 on the exam only receive 46 if you DON'T take into account SACs?

I'm not trying to attack you, I just don't think you have substantial evidence to back up your claims.

As said, the upper range pieces are decided by the examiners, scores can literally be the same, but separation is based on the subjective views of their pieces by the examiners. I also had a friend last yr who got 10,10 and 9 and got a 45. I know that it seems strange that such a high score would only get a 45 or 46, but it shows they discriminate individually. SACS are't looked it if you are getting the top marks - example, a boy from last yr from my school got a 50 and he was no way near the top of our schools rankings. Like i say, what i'm stating is from a senior vce teacher who is on a panel of the vce markers and is part of those who chose the 50's and 49's etc. Because once it gets to the top 2 %, the marks are relatively the same - once you get a 9, the only way you get a 10 is through a comparative process, because their is no such thing as the perfect piece. It explains why one person may have literally the same score is someone else (high 50's) but have a lower study score - because the chief examiners specifically chose who gets the top SS. I'll leave it at this. peace x

[Jabez]

Hey guys, just wondering what my English SS may possibly be:

Ranked somewhere in the top 4 or 5 I think?
Unit 3: low A+
Unit 4: Mid A+
Exam: hopefully between 50-55/60

cheers.

[paulsterio]

Hey guys, just wondering what my English SS may possibly be:

Ranked somewhere in the top 4 or 5 I think?
Unit 3: low A+
Unit 4: Mid A+
Exam: hopefully between 50-55/60

cheers.

Comfortably a 40, it can possibly be a 45 if you get 55/60

[Jabez]

ah sweet, cheers man.

[totaled]

For scores 47+:
The chief examiner and the executive examiners get together and choose who gets the 50's, 49's etc; getting that high of a score becomes purely subjective to these examiners. If any two scores are the same, they look to their LA scores to separate them. Also, they don't consider sacs at all for these scores. And to get a 50, you don't need three 10's, the highest score last yr was something like 9,9,10 or something-  no-one got 60/60.

And a couple of insider words on the eng. exam i heard from my teacher awhile ago:
- LA was done woefully
- Context for IL was done pretty shit
- A lot of people tried to be creative and failed at it for context as well.

Hmm.. that's interesting. Did your teacher hint at the cutoff being even slightly lower this year, since LA was done pretty badly overall?

She didn't say anything because she told me this as first marking was ending. I would guess maybe down a mark or so but not too sure

I am willing to say, that I am almost certain that is untrue unfortunately.
All the winners of the Premier's Awards, all get 60/60. I know people who HAVE gotten 60/60, including students who got 59/60 last year, but did not win premiers as a result (how is that possible if your information is true? their sacs were full marks, so they SHOULD have won premiers if 59/60 was truly the highest mark)

[totaled]

in fact, i may side with jane1234 to say that this is untrue

[jane1234]

It just seems illogical to me that a bunch of examiners sit around a table saying "Hmm... I really like Jenny's Language Analysis, let's give her a 50 despite the fact that her Context piece was crap and she is ranked 100th in a weak cohort" or "Oh no, Joe wrote a mediocre Langauage Analysis so he gets 47 even though the rest of his exam was amazing and he is 1st in a strong cohort" or "I love Phillip's story about kittens and rainbows so I think I'll hand out another 50".

I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense and is too subjective for a system which NEEDS to have the highest degree of fairness possible. If they do things like this, then that is just bullshit for the people who have worked hard for their SACs during the year and have still scored well on the exam. There is a reason that crappy schools such as mine only ever get english scores of low 40s due to SAC moderation.

/endrant.

Guys, let's quit speculating. However the system works, our scores are fixed when we get them on the 16th and there's nothing we can do about it (except cry)!

[totaled]

oh, and knowing vcaa, they're probably too lazy to do that too

also, it would be unfair, the current system where everyone gets a score out of 60 is a lot, lot more unbiased.

[Planck's constant]

There can be no doubt that the VCAA assess English (and all other subjects for that matter) according to their published guidelines.

I understand that the next to last step in the assessment process is to RANK each of the 40,000 students who attempt VCE English.
Therefore there will be a student who ranks 1, 2 ... all the way to 40,000
The system also allows for equal ranks. For instance, 2 students score equally at the top end, and they are both assigned a rank of 1, the next best is assigned a rank of 3, and so on down to rank 40,000

It is the normalised RANK (scale 0-50) which produces the final Study Score.

But with a cohort as large as that of VCE English, there will be literally hundreds of students who will share the same rank . Lets face it, how many different combinations of 8/9/10's can there be?

Therefore, even after your exam score is combined with your SAC score, there will still be many students who will share the same rank.
I can therefore envisage some practical reasons for a further 'finer and subjective' gradation of results.

This can be illustrated with the following (contrived) example:
In 2011, a combined total of 100 students will be assigned study scores of 48, 49 and 50.
It just happened that 100 students got the exact same score (SAC + Exam) and they are all ranked equal #1.
Surely, these 100 students will need to be differentiated, and this can only be done after the fact, meaning that some will be (subjectively, if you like) judged better than others

I do not profess 'inside' knowledge.
I have none.
Just thinking aloud.

[totaled]

That's the issue with VCE English unfortunately. The scores are obviously much too close together.

Also note SAC marks play a huge part in the decision making.

[WhoTookMyUsername]

^ ulbasaur has got no idea. Those marking the exam will not be privy to SAC marks and will not say "i'll give this guy a 50 cos his LA is pretty decent." The examiners determine a mark, and this is paired with SAC marks to produce an SS (a lot of this talk has been ASSUMING close to full Sacs)

[ulbasour]

^ ulbasaur has got no idea. Those marking the exam will not be privy to SAC marks and will not say "i'll give this guy a 50 cos his LA is pretty decent." The examiners determine a mark, and this is paired with SAC marks to produce an SS (a lot of this talk has been ASSUMING close to full Sacs)

No idea eh..
Is your teacher the executive examiner of English? I'm sorry mate but your arguments are based on gut instinct, mine is based from the 2nd highest authority in relation to VCE english.  Around 25th nov the chief and executive examiners gather together to rank the top end because markwise they are literally the same. They don't look at Sacs unless there is huge descrepencies including their GAT (i.e. the failed the GAT and have D's for their SACS) but just because you only got an A for your Sacs, you won't be disadvantaged from getting a 50. You don't need the top mark. PLease if someone wants to argue, put some authority and proof to what you say.