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November 01, 2024, 09:57:36 am

Author Topic: "White flight" in the selective school system  (Read 14883 times)  Share 

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LOVEPHYSICS

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 12:37:38 am »
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Anglo-Celtic Australians are people of British and/or Irish ancestral backgrounds. Essentially, English are their spoken language and they come from Europe. They are the first settlers and are also the predominant ethnic race in Australia.

 'Fears' over 'white flight'. Simply by glancing at the topic is enough to infer that it is more than simply pointing out a fact.






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acinod

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 12:47:56 am »
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 12:58:00 am »
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Anglo-Celtic Australians are people of British and/or Irish ancestral backgrounds. Essentially, English are their spoken language and they come from Europe. They are the first settlers and are also the predominant ethnic race in Australia.
English and Irish are only about 39%, far from a dominating super-majority.. ( https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia#Ancestry_of_Australian_population - Anyone can be "Australian". A lot of my Asian friends consider themselves Australian and people of other races. Anyway, Adding Australian+English+Irish would be a mistake since there is significant overlap.)

I think a more important indicator is country of birth really, rather than heritage. Over generations attitudes change no matter what your heritage if you go back.

I'm not sure if you're implying there is something wrong with that either. I don't think so but for obvious historical reasons people of that ancestry make up a large portion of Australia just like people of Chinese ancestry make up a decent chunk of malaysia.

'Fears' over 'white flight'. Simply by glancing at the topic is enough to infer that it is more than simply pointing out a fact.
I think you're reading into it too much and looking for an attitude that might not necessarily be there. As i said and appianway went onto say i think its a valid article about how disproportionate the demographics are.

I think appianway makes another good point about manufacturing success/motivation. It probably isn't nearly as effective if it is forced on you rather than you freely choosing to succeed. If it arises organically it seems like a much more lasting, permanent and enjoyable thing.

Anyway, in a couple generations times im sure it'll level out as the young people of today have children of their own and decide not to follow some of the thing theirs parents did.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:06:06 am by kingpomba »

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 01:13:22 am »
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That's correct, anyone can be 'Australian'. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/7d12b0f6763c78caca257061001cc588/af5129cb50e07099ca2570eb0082e462!OpenDocument

 The 38% that 'nominate' themselves as Australians, only 1.2% spoke a language other than English at home. Don't want to generalise, but that says a lot. By the way, 1999 estimates placed Anglo/Celtic Australians at 70%.

It is valid in pointing out facts, but it is also highly inflammatory, if you know what the term 'white flight' mean. Furthermore, the article is rather clear with its view that there is something wrong, or unhealthy with such disproportion.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:15:02 am by LOVEPHYSICS »
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2011, 01:20:09 am »
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I guess i don't have to point out its not 1999 anymore and we shouldn't use old data and that does sound pretty dodgy, they probably combined responses.

I don't see it as inflammatory as well. I do know what white flight means and i knew it well before the article. If it was about african people leaving the schools or asian people would you consider "Asian Flight" as offensive? Your perception seems a bit skewed here. Just pointing it out. I understand this is a touchy issue but we can't let our bias's and feelings creep into our decision making.

(For people who have no idea what we're talking about - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/White_flight )

Furthermore, the article is rather clear with its view that there is something wrong, or unhealthy with such disproportion.
Isn't there? Isn't diversity a good thing? I went through this in length in my other post. I don't care if it was a lack of diversity to due to an overwhelming white, asian or black majority, either way, a lack of diversity isn't good. It doesn't make the situation in some way more special or offensive just because one race is more represented than the other..
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:23:10 am by kingpomba »

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2011, 02:19:47 am »
+1
I'm going to be pragmatic and ask all year 12's in this thread to write a comparative analysis of the two articles posted on this thread.

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2011, 08:21:34 am »
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I will try and make this my last post. Can we conclude that 32% are English Australian? Neglecting the Celts, Irish/Scottish, that 32% is the single largest ethnic population in Australia. The 2nd largest didn't even come close, the Italians at 9%, the Chinese at 3% and the Indians at 1%. Pretty much all other ethnic groups are of 0. something %. That looks pretty dominating to me.

Yes I find White Flight and any type of flight inflammatory, especially so when it is used at a country that consistently proclaims its multicultural credentials. I think all our perceptions are skewed. We are after all, subjective human beings, even if we try not to be. A person can never truly understand the impact of being a minority if they haven't been one before, nor could one truly appreciate the privilege of being hold as equals if one hadn't been subjected to discrimination before.

I never said that diversity was bad. Seems like you are making more implications then I am about the article. The point is, it is a selective school. It is not meant to choose students based on race, sex or creed. It is not meant to represent diversity. There are lots of public schools for that. Selective schools are only there to select students with high academic potential.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 09:48:08 am by LOVEPHYSICS »
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2011, 08:55:02 am »
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This is an interesting issue. I'm not sure how much we can really infer from it though without knowing the racial demographics of high performing private schools. It is possible that all of the caucasian students who could have gotten into the selective public schools instead stayed on in their private school. I don't think the issue is about how ethnicity relates to selective school admission, but rather how it relates to getting a good and well-resourced education. I'm not sure if it's clear that people of Asian decent have any distinct advantage here. Indeed, I don't think that the articles mean to say this either.

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2011, 11:03:28 am »
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from what i gather, they're saying
'its too hard to get in because of these hard working asians'

so they want to get in without working hard, and they dont realise that they would be pulling the school's mean score down, thus making it a somewhat average school

Quote
including one year 12 student who asked his teacher to assess 78 practice essays.
does anyone know who this is?
That's insane
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:34:33 pm by nacho »
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2011, 11:49:05 am »
+4
Peter Wood on the article;

Quote
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2011, 12:31:40 pm »
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He doesn't like being quoted accurately by somebody because they also wrote an article he doesn't like...? Am I missing something here...?

Quote
Selective schools are only there to select students with high academic potential.

I think the article is suggesting (implicitly) that this should change to some extent, since the current 'high academic potential' is not being accurately measured
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 12:36:00 pm by Russ »

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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2011, 01:24:25 pm »
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I love how there is an assumption that migrants out-performing other students and getting into MHS is somehow a "new" thing. I think if anyone was to actually look back at MHS's history, it has always had a VERY large proportion of students which were part of the current migrant wave (Italians, Greeks, Balkans, Russians etc...). It exists, in a way, to take the best students from those initially poor backgrounds and help integrate them into society/to an extent break the cycle of poverty. Students who get into MHS but are already established in Australia can afford Private Schools and would not frequently choose to leave them for a selective school. One needs only to look back in history to see this isn't a new phenomena, simply in this case the migrants aren't "whites" so there's a lot more fear regarding them.
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2011, 05:14:48 pm »
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I'm going to be pragmatic and ask all year 12's in this thread to write a comparative analysis of the two articles posted on this thread.

... 8 )

I am genuinely in the middle of doing that! Well actually only one of the articles and a comment someone made on the age website. :P
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2011, 06:00:47 pm »
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He doesn't like being quoted accurately by somebody because they also wrote an article he doesn't like...? Am I missing something here...?

Quote
Selective schools are only there to select students with high academic potential.

I think the article is suggesting (implicitly) that this should change to some extent, since the current 'high academic potential' is not being accurately measured

How is the 'academic' testing system not being accurately measured? From my knowledge, it is maths, science and english. Everyone does the same paper.
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Re: "White flight" in the selective school system
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2011, 06:26:18 pm »
+1
Such an emphasis on achieving, as the multiple tutors illustrates, does not constitute a happy life style. From reading a few replies it seems as though some people have taken it as some sort of pseudospeciation, much the contrary - it's simply not healthy and if caucasians were doing this there would be the exact response.  there is no doubt that asian parents... put bluntly... indoctrinate their children into holding school too highly.

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