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Author Topic: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW  (Read 4877 times)  Share 

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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 06:24:45 pm »
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@Russ, maybe it doesn't kill you but I live in St. Albans, I know and see heaps of marijuana users and cig smokers, I can honestly say, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, I would think 100000 times before touching marijuana seeing it's effects. I have tried a cigarette however.

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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 06:25:32 pm »
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That's disgusting, but I'm proud to say I could continue drinking my tea without feeling sick :D The last picture - how is that girl conscious to stand there and take a photo of it? How are these people just calmly walking around with their bones exposed?
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2011, 06:31:32 pm »
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There was a thread about this somewhere else.

But yeah, I think this is one of the big social issues we face. These people are depressed, believe they have little to live for, are very poor, and are desperate for some sort of a break for life, and despite having the knowledge of the side effects, they know that in the short term it will be 'better' for them, because their long term prospects are shit either way. This is one of the main reason depressed people consume drugs/alcohol. Add in the fact they are poor and they end up taking shit like this.

There are different reasons behind recreation use for cannabis/drugs/alcohol, and whilst they may be an issue in society, I think the first part I mentioned is really the first that we need to face.


To address the side issue, (I really can't be bothered finding appropriate literature right now, may post later) I think the effect which Marijuana has on short term mental state is the issue that most governments have with it. Health wise it probably is not as bad as cigarettes. That's why the consumption of Cannabis in a controlled environment is legal in many provinces/countries.


Looked at the pictures, quite nasty, don't even understand why the body responds like that to it.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 06:37:39 pm by taiga »
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2011, 07:16:23 pm »
+1
@Russ, maybe it doesn't kill you but I live in St. Albans, I know and see heaps of marijuana users and cig smokers, I can honestly say, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, I would think 100000 times before touching marijuana seeing it's effects. I have tried a cigarette however.

Don't conflate the behaviour of the people smoking it with the effects of the two drugs, because you absolutely cannot do that.

I had a poke around and two articles (1) (2) were kinda interesting. In general I took that cannabis side effects are very strongly dose dependent, so casual use is much less of a concern than casual cigarette smoking. Cannabis also hasn't been as strongly linked to things like COPD (emphysema), which is pretty much a guarantee of tobacco usage. The issue is clouded by the fact that the majority of people who use cannabis also smoke tobacco. I don't want to downplay the risks of marijuana, because they're serious and cannabinoids have a very powerful addictive effect upon the mesolimbic/dopamine system. I wouldn't want to smoke either regularly, but tobacco seems to be much more serious a killer. As before, if anyone disagrees, then just post and say so.

So yeah, stay in school kids, don't do drugs.

Quote

Looked at the pictures, quite nasty, don't even understand why the body responds like that to it.

It's not the drug, it's the toxins that get injected with it because it's normally being mixed up from codeine + matchboxes, so it's extremely impure and dangerous.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 07:19:46 pm by Russ »

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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2011, 12:56:30 am »
+2
PWOARH! Big socks your wearing there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis

Nuff said.

Ok, so looking at your evidence the very first sentence of the article is "Though the long-term effects of cannabis have been studied, there remains much to be concluded". Before delving any further, I need to really emphasize the fact that both the good and the bad LONG TERM affects of cannabis have barely been studied and as such there remains much inconclusive evidence about it.

So let's look at the long term (well known and well documented) effects of Cigarette usage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco - Using wikipedia just like you did for Cannabis, there's a huge host of well documented and known diseases directly related to cigarettes - cancer of like 10 different organs, bronchitis, heart disease, strokes, emphysema, loss of limbs, heart disease... and the list goes MUCH further. You also don't need to be a pack a day smoker to get some of this crap - you can smoke like 1 - 3 cigarettes a day and if you're unlucky a year or two later have some serious repercussions.

In terms of Marijuana, there is a loose link to psychosis based on a few studies. Nothing solid enough to draw a direct link to marijuana with. However there is also a large amount of debate (as from your wikipedia article) on whether or not this is a correlation or causation, so again, MUCH more research needs to be done to produce anything solid. Many people who develop psychosis have had it in their family or already have exhibited symptoms of the disorder, so it's very hard to point to marijuana as the cause of the disease - rather evidence suggests that at most, it's a factor if you're already starting to develop the disease. You don't have to smoke cannabis to ingest it, however smoking is obviously bad for your health in any way - however the respiratory effects of smoking cannabis are quite clearly less than cigarettes.

Now you'll never hear me go out and say "cannabis is good for you", "you'll be fine no matter how much you ingest" etc etc. That's at least in my opinion, rubbish. I think it's common sense that too much of something that affects your brain would affect your mental ability in some ways . I do know people who have smoked lots of cannabis and become very slow and generally dumb, with that said I know someone who smoked cannabis almost daily in Year 9 - 10, stopped for year 11 - 12 and pulled off a 99.90. All of this however is anecdotal evidence so don't presume that it's factual - just like you know people in St Albans who are dumb stoners, we simply can't draw conclusions based on our own personal experiences, rather just use them to guide us in making our own decisions.

There has also been some research on Cannabis being useful in negating pain in people with permanent debilitating conditions, alongside some research into its affects on the brain. I think if you googled it you could find some articles on the research, marijuana (like Morphine I guess) can be abused, but is also something we should not be dismissing in terms of potential medical benefits. More research is definitely needed. I also feel the need to comment on addiction - Marijuana is much, much less addictive then cigarettes. People who smoke weed all the time generally do it because they love the feeling, not like cigarettes where you actually start craving the nicotine hit. So I think that's another reason why weed is better for you than smoking - you're less likely to get hooked on the stuff.

Anyway, if you asked me if you should legalize Marijuana I'd say yes - not because I think we should all be smoking it, I don't touch the stuff and wouldn't want any kind of drug affecting my brain in the VCE years (except maybe alcohol hahaha). But if you asked me what I thought was better, people smoking cigarettes every day or people smoking weed every day, I think all the evidence and research (or lack thereof) points to the fact that Marijuana would be better for you especially in the short term. Like Russ said, 1/3 of people over 13 have tried Marijuana, and really there hasn't been ANY research that has shown that occasional usage of the substance (i.e. once a month) will lead to significant loss of health.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 12:59:32 am by teewreck »
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2011, 10:27:57 am »
+1
Nice essay :P All in all, stay away from drugs and cigarettes!

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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 01:19:35 am »
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Firstly, everyone here should watch this award winning documentary:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007

It's pretty credible, as it quotes a vast number of studies conducted by well respected universities and organisations
It also heavily features the head of the Harvard Medical School and it pretty much just looks at marijuana and the social, political, economical and health effects
And it's funny at parts

Anyone who says marijuana poses a greater danger to the user than tobacco or alcohol is severely misled
There is a tremendous stigma associated with weed, and it's all because people our mouthing off the same lies and propaganda

not saying that weed is harmless, it just not as harmful as tobacco and even alcohol
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 04:50:23 pm »
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Firstly, everyone here should watch this award winning documentary:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007

It's pretty credible, as it quotes a vast number of studies conducted by well respected universities and organisations
It also heavily features the head of the Harvard Medical School and it pretty much just looks at marijuana and the social, political, economical and health effects
And it's funny at parts

Anyone who says marijuana poses a greater danger to the user than tobacco or alcohol is severely misled
There is a tremendous stigma associated with weed, and it's all because people our mouthing off the same lies and propaganda

not saying that weed is harmless, it just not as harmful as tobacco and even alcohol

Well said! I was going to recommend everyone watch 'The Union' given that as you said, it thoroughly explores the stigma associated with smoking marijuana. With that considered whilst it's a very informative movie it was produced and directed by pro-marijuana lobbyist and does possess a specific bias, and as such everything heard should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2011, 04:58:11 pm »
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@Russ, maybe it doesn't kill you but I live in St. Albans, I know and see heaps of marijuana users and cig smokers, I can honestly say, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, I would think 100000 times before touching marijuana seeing it's effects. I have tried a cigarette however.

Not to reduce the thread to an individual level, but this is a ridiculous statement. As Russ said 33% of teenagers have tried marijuana, where you live in no way dictates exposure to marijuana abuse. The majority of the population experiences pot at some stage of their life - you're meeting 'users' everywhere you go, everyday. I know for certainty that two 'users' have currently posted in this thread, and that's only that I know of.
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 06:14:25 pm »
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Yeah I agree with what Ghost! is saying
The justification you gave for your opinion on marijuana just displays your ignorance on the matter.
Your entire perception of marijuana should not be based off of the lives of some marijuana users you may personally know. Barrack Obama, Steve Jobs, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps and countless other successful individuals have admitted to doing weed. Using your logic, marijuana use must have directly contributed to their success.
Correlation does not mean causation
Just because some people in St Albans may have messed up lives does not mean marijuana caused it
Building on what's been said earlier, over half of the Canadian population has admitted to using weed at some stage in their lives, and Canadians are seen to be some of the most delightful and friendly people around! (Generalisation, I know)
What is it that scares you about the effects of marijuana? Find me someone who has smoked too much weed and has gone home and beat their kids, or a guy who had heaps of pot and beat his wife. Alcohol related violence can be seen almost anywhere. Weed on the other hand makes a pacifist of the user.
Think twice before you say no to a joint
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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 06:38:46 pm »
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Think twice before you say no to a joint

There's no safe amount of cannabis.

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Re: Krokodil-New epidemic in Russia *NOT FOR FAINT-HEARTED* NSFW
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 08:01:38 pm »
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Think twice before you say no to a joint

There's no safe amount of cannabis.

Depending on the context, of course there is.
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“We are all alone, born alone, die alone, we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely -- at least, not all the time -- but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness.”
― Hunter S. Thompson