Monash MBBS vs Melb Sci and MD (in terms of research...)

[luken93]

Hey all, was just thinking about options with all this spare time, and am just interested to learn more about the research portion of Med courses...

As hypothetical situations:
 a) If I somehow amazingly got guaranteed MD, condensed the science course into 2 years (like dc has done on here) and then followed into 4 year MD (which supposedly has a better research portion)
 b) I gained entry into Monash MBBS and did the 5 years + 1 year research

So in the end, they are both 6 years. However, would one stream be a better option if one was interested in the research side of things? Could the 1 year non-stop research year for monash be better than the research portions that could be done through the UoM stream?

I've never really thought about it, just curious to gain your opinions...

[Russ]

Rule number one: don't compress your degree into 2 years.

What is the MBBS research like? Because the MD research is built around providing a masters level research qualification, you get to do some pretty cool stuff. Link me the MBBS stuff?

Also, if you want to do research, your undergrad degree will give you the ability to get more exposure to it in 3rd year

[luken93]

Rule number one: don't compress your degree into 2 years.

What is the MBBS research like? Because the MD research is built around providing a masters level research qualification, you get to do some pretty cool stuff. Link me the MBBS stuff?

Also, if you want to do research, your undergrad degree will give you the ability to get more exposure to it in 3rd year

Haha it was just to imply that time wasn't the issue, if they could be done in the same time I was more interested in the degree itself...

And I haven't really looked into it too much, kinda hoping there's someone on here that knows more than I do, but I shall commence trawling for info now...

[dc302]

Lol another person wanting to finish in 2 years pops up.

I have no idea but the MBBS+1yr research sounds more hardcore in terms of research.

[shinny]

The plus one year tied to the MBBS is as part of an optional BMedSci degree, where you spend an entire year committed to research. You can apply to any project you want really, so long as you get approval on both sides (the researcher and the uni). As part of the MBBS in 2nd year, you'll also do a research project for a bit over half a year, spending a day each week doing mostly epidemiologically-based research as well, which eventually leads to a formal presentation to many high ups and what not. I'm not the most keen on research and such so I'm not that knowledgable regarding this, but Monash seems to have hardly any involvement in the BMedSci project (as I said, it's essentially you finding your own research position somewhere and just doing it for a year; granted that it will be easier finding a position amongst the many Monash-based projects available). On the other hand, I get the impression UoM would be better for research. Then again, Monash has a motherfking synchrotron.

[thushan]

Hmm, personally I used to favour Monash because of the five-year vs seven-year thing, but I'm starting to favour Melb guaranteed over Monash (assuming the hypothetical situation where one would get an offer to Monash Med and guaranteed Med at Melb) on the basis of the following:

- I live in northern suburbs, so travel to Monash would kill me given the timetable
- Research Opportunities at Melb; I can take the undergrad time to participate in a lot of research opportunities such as summer vacation research and the like, along with the research requirement for the MD, and also given that Melbourne is generally considered the better research university
- I can build up my science knowledge to a higher level before tacking the impossibilities of medicine, which I don't think I personally have the ability to do as an undergraduate - like I can build up some knowledge in anatomy and physiology whilst completing majors in Medicinal Chemistry, Pharmacology and Biochemistry + Molecular Biology (I already did uni chem, and if the timetable works out I could pull this off with only one overload in 2nd year 1st semester)
- (I say this at the risk of sounding ignorant so please don't judge me) but I would like to do further postgraduate studies overseas and really work in groundbreaking research at the likes of Oxford/Harvard/etc esp in the potential of stem cells in producing new human organs or the role of drugs in combating the likes of HIV/malaria etc. and I have been told that Melbourne degrees are much more widely recognised in terms of admission

What's your take?

[stonecold]

^Don't forget that Melb will give you a scholarship.

[Russ]

- I can build up my science knowledge to a higher level before tacking the impossibilities of medicine, which I don't think I personally have the ability to do as an undergraduate - like I can build up some knowledge in anatomy and physiology whilst completing majors in Medicinal Chemistry, Pharmacology and Biochemistry + Molecular Biology (I already did uni chem, and if the timetable works out I could pull this off with only one overload in 2nd year 1st semester)

If you want to do this for the sake of the knowledge and to enjoy a relatively laidback undergrad, great, but don't think it's going to significantly impact on your medical degree. Your undergrad is a nice background but it's really just that - background. Far more important that you can prescribe a statin for cholesterol problems than understand the entire HDL/LDL/VLDL pathway.

- (I say this at the risk of sounding ignorant so please don't judge me) but I would like to do further postgraduate studies overseas and really work in groundbreaking research at the likes of Oxford/Harvard/etc esp in the potential of stem cells in producing new human organs or the role of drugs in combating the likes of HIV/malaria etc. and I have been told that Melbourne degrees are much more widely recognised in terms of admission

Melbourne is more widely recognized internationally, but if you want to get into research nobody cares about your undergrad. What matters is where you do your PhD and then where you work as a postdoc. Mostly it's to show that you're not dependent on a lab, so you'll usually travel and demonstrate that you can work successfully on a global scale. But in general, if you want to get involved in research in either of those areas, there's no need to aim for Oxford/Harvard. The Parkville research cluster is ridiculously good and it's actually a world leader in microbiology/immunology, which is what you'd be doing if you were going into HIV/malaria therapy/prophylaxis.

The guys that developed the groundbreaking new malaria vaccine weren't working at Harvard - the only real thing you get from working there, is more funding and better name recognition, but if you produce good research then you'll get Science/Nature publications anyway. If you're interested in research then your undergrad will let you decide that (protip working in a lab can be horrifically boring) because you'll be able to do UROP and SRS etc.

I had to decline Honours to accept my MD offer and I was really torn over it - research will offer something that you can't get in any other job, but it's also got a hell of a lot of challenges that generally aren't recognized by starry eyed youngsters like us.

Also, don't work in stem cells. They make no sense whatsoever and they're about 30 years away from actual therapy

[thushan]

^Don't forget that Melb will give you a scholarship.

Bahaha true. Just to clarify, this is merely for u'grad only? As far as I know there's no equivalent for a graduate entry scholarship?

[thushan]

Cheers for the advice Russ. Just a thing, that stem cells thing I brought up because they were already therapeutically used to construct a trachea in Spain a couple of years ago, so I thought...what about other organs?

[Russ]

Yeah they've built a trachea, but...ugh, the field is a bit of a mess. Scientists cannot readily identify the different types of stem cell and we also struggle to identify the factors that control their differentiation and so forth. There have been some really brilliant advances in constructing tissues (insulin secreting B-cells, a bladder, general regenerative tissue etc.) but they've struggled to get them into effective therapies, especially for things like the lung, which is a whole clusterfuck. There are a whole lot of problems associated with the field and it's gonna be a while before it becomes viable. If you want more info I guess I could think back to my horrible stem cell block

Bahaha true. Just to clarify, this is merely for u'grad only? As far as I know there's no equivalent for a graduate entry scholarship?

There are, there are just less and they're harder to get.

[thushan]

Are there? What are they

[Russ]

If you're willing to live at college, there are a bunch of scholarships for that (some specific, some nonspecific). If you qualify for Access Melbourne, they hand out scholarships for that, as they do if you're needing to support yourself.

There are less academic merit scholarships, because those are used at VCE level to entice kids in. If you're willing to do research in particularly areas, there is plenty of money available

eg, $23,500

    Awarded to support research into cancer, diseases of the liver, ophthalmic diseases (and in particular the neurological aspects of vision) and angina pectoris or any one or more of them, in a Department of the Faculty of Science at The University of Melbourne.

Or if you come from specific circumstances (unmarried woman etc.) there are niche endowments

[thushan]

Hmm. Perhaps to clear this once and for all - perhaps a list of pros and cons of each pathway?

[paulsterio]

Thushan, you forgot one thing, the fact that only 2 of the 5 years (Y1 & 2) are at Monash Clayton, the last 3 years will be at a teaching hospital, I'm not sure which ones Monash has partnerships with, but there might be some closer to you