Career advice...

[Stick]

This might not be the best place for me to gain career advice, but I'll try anyway...

So I'm doing pretty well at school; in fact, very well. Without intending to sound arrogant, I'm expecting I'll get an ATAR in the 90s when the time comes around. But I have no idea what I want to do as my career.

I did three work experiences this year - two in the journalism field and one in the IT/engineering field. The IT/engineering experience was alright but I don't think I want to follow that career path. The journalism experiences were very fun but the work was fairly light and the pay for journalism can be worse than teaching, despite demanding work hours. I enjoyed it a lot, but it too didn't seem like the right career for me.

A lot of people are telling me that people of your intelligence choose law and medicine careers for a reason. As journalism and law have strong foundations in English, law does seem like a viable career option for me at this stage as it seems to pay well - only problem is that I haven't chosen legal studies as one of my subjects. I know this isn't the end of the world, but I imagine I'd be putting myself under more pressure in the first year of a law degree. My other concern is that the career might be boring, as quite a lot of people tend to say. I'm considering taking another work experience to see what it's like. As you can see with my subject selections below, however, I also enjoy my maths and sciences. I've never really opened my mind to medicine because I'm no good with 'blood and guts' but I'm thinking I might find an area which I'll like and will pay pretty well.

All the careers tests I taken come back though with 'accountant' as my result. While I enjoy maths, commerce has never interested me. I decided to choose it as an elective this year and the teacher and the course structure was a disappointment. Hence, I have grown a strong distaste for the finance area. Furthermore, many also regard it as a 'boring' career path and I believe the pay for accountants is nothing overly special either.

I know the pay should not be the determining factor for my career choice, but I do want to live to my fullest potential. Please offer any suggestions or advice you might have. Maybe you've also felt the same way as me. Any contribution you can make will be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[mystikal]

u dont have to do legal studies to do law, i heard it helps for only 2 weeks... but the universities start from scratch with law so you dont have to worry about pressure.

career tests arent always the best to determine what job you shud do. You should do whatever you think is right for you.

Maybe do some work experience in summer in a small law firm to see what its like?

What about academia/teaching? if you have good writing skills it could be worth it and you get paid quite well and flexible hours.

[Stick]

Thanks for your advice, mystikal.

I have considered teaching as well, but it seems like something I might want to do towards the end of my working life.

I also really want to explore medicine as well. I'm just so annoyed I've shut it off for so long. I'm sure there's an area that might appeal to me.

[mystikal]

volunteer at a hospital? to be honest i was in a positions similar to you, i did all sciences in VCE got into pharmacy but when i started working in one for a year and abit i got sick of it didnt see myself doing the job in 5 years time so i transferred to commerce.

i think getting first hand experience in any prospective occupation will be your best bet into deciding what you want to do in the future. worst comes to worst you can just do a double degree in 2 fields you are interested in and pick one after you graduate or you can pick a single generalist degree (comm,sci,arts,law) and do a postgrad degree.

[ninwa]

- legal studies has precious little to do with law

- you most likely won't get good pay with journalism (highly competitive)

- you are unlikely to get super-amazing pay with law either unless you are willing to work 60 hour weeks for 10 years until you get promoted to partner / judge. That said barristers can earn annual salaries in the millions and judges are usually six figures

- waiting for shinny or other med students to confirm this but I think in medicine you will be cutting up cadavers since first year so if you're "not good with blood and guts" you probably shouldn't do med

- you like maths - do a bachelor of commerce majoring in actuarial studies. I hear it's very difficult maths, and most people end up dropping out, but if you manage to get accreditation actuaries are highly sought after and will earn shittons of money

[Stick]

Thanks for your advice, ninwa.

I know journalism pays crap and that's why I'm not going to even consider it anymore. It was a pretty fun job, but I can tell that it's probably not going to be good for me in the long-term.

When I say I want 'good pay' I mean that I'd like to be earning over $100,000 after about 10 years of working experience. I don't expect to make a fortune straight after finishing university. Who wants to employ a graduate at all, let alone pay a graduate a six-figure sum? XD

See, I've done dissections and I'm fine. I just don't think I could cope with operating on a living person, knowing that any mistake I make could cost them their lives. I'd prefer to be in an area of medicine that would involve no surgery.

A lot of the careers tests also come back with actuary as my result as well. I'm concerned as I'm not doing Specialist Maths and while I'm quite good at maths in general, I don't think I could ever achieve that career.

[ninwa]

$100k after 10 years sounds somewhat reasonable for a lawyer if you're willing to sacrifice your family and social life in that time. I have friends doing internships and whatnot with law firms and I often see them on Facebook at 10pm complaining about still being stuck at work (and they haven't even graduated). It's not easy (in any industry, but particularly the legal one)

I think to earn that much money with medicine would require you to do a specialisation. I don't know much about med but I think it'll end up being something like 5 years med + 3/4 years specialisation study + internships, and the high-paying ones like surgery are highly competitive. Maybe contact shinny or Russ for more info on that

Consider taking up specialist maths if being in a high-earning job is so important to you.

[Russ]

Worrying about "blood and guts" is perfectly normal for a lot of medical students (or just health science etc. students). Your university is pretty decent at recognizing that it's tough for some people and they'll let you take it easy as necessary. I was a little worried about it as well but when it came to the first time in the anatomy labs it was actually nowhere as bad as I expected. Rather it was quite interesting and that distracted me from the actual dissections and whatnot.

If you want to work in an area with no surgery that's perfectly possible. Whilst you're training you'll need to observe and participate in surgeries (everyone will) but you obviously won't be the chief surgeon. If you want to specialize in another field you'll still do the surgery training but you'll stop once you start your chosen specialty.

I think to earn that much money with medicine would require you to do a specialisation. I don't know much about med but I think it'll end up being something like 5 years med + 3/4 years specialisation study + internships, and the high-paying ones like surgery are highly competitive. Maybe contact shinny or Russ for more info on that

Everyone specializes, otherwise it's just torture for 40 years. Anyway, the pathway goes: Med School (5-7 years depending), Internship (1 year), Residency/PGYs (X years, probably 2), Study for fellowship/specialty (4-6 years). The exams for the specialization are really fucking hard, so it's not unusual for people to take longer than the minimum timeframe.

In terms of pay, you'd get ~55k in your first year out as an Intern and it goes up by a bit each year. Once you've gained acceptance as a Fellow of your college (FRACS etc.) then you get what's called a provider number, so you can bill Medicare. At this point you can set yourself up as a consultant and start trying to run your own business (or, more likely, keep working in the hospital because you have no patient base). Eventually you'll start shifting more and more to private practice, where you can get a lot of money. A LOT of money. My specialist makes $100 off me for a 20 minute consult, which is ~$300/hr. Even working, say, 6 hours a day, 4 days a week, 40 weeks a year...well...you do the math.

That pathway (of complete private practice) is the "business" of medicine and some people just don't like it. It's up to you to find a balance, but nobody is going to say that doctors don't make money, they just have to work hard for it.

One thing I will say about medicine, is what my consultant told me: your life will be different forever, because it's a job for life. So if you're interested and committed, then it's fantastic but if not, then think about other options

[Stick]

$100k after 10 years sounds somewhat reasonable for a lawyer if you're willing to sacrifice your family and social life in that time. I have friends doing internships and whatnot with law firms and I often see them on Facebook at 10pm complaining about still being stuck at work (and they haven't even graduated). It's not easy (in any industry, but particularly the legal one)

I think to earn that much money with medicine would require you to do a specialisation. I don't know much about med but I think it'll end up being something like 5 years med + 3/4 years specialisation study + internships, and the high-paying ones like surgery are highly competitive. Maybe contact shinny or Russ for more info on that

Consider taking up specialist maths if being in a high-earning job is so important to you.

I'm not looking for a 'get rich quick' scheme or anything like that; I'm rather looking at comfortably setting myself and my family up financially in the long term. I'm not one that can say they can do any boring job as long as they can make a killing either. I've already got a part-time job and I know it's not going to be easy.

Worrying about "blood and guts" is perfectly normal for a lot of medical students (or just health science etc. students). Your university is pretty decent at recognizing that it's tough for some people and they'll let you take it easy as necessary. I was a little worried about it as well but when it came to the first time in the anatomy labs it was actually nowhere as bad as I expected. Rather it was quite interesting and that distracted me from the actual dissections and whatnot.

If you want to work in an area with no surgery that's perfectly possible. Whilst you're training you'll need to observe and participate in surgeries (everyone will) but you obviously won't be the chief surgeon. If you want to specialize in another field you'll still do the surgery training but you'll stop once you start your chosen specialty.

Everyone specializes, otherwise it's just torture for 40 years. Anyway, the pathway goes: Med School (5-7 years depending), Internship (1 year), Residency/PGYs (X years, probably 2), Study for fellowship/specialty (4-6 years). The exams for the specialization are really fucking hard, so it's not unusual for people to take longer than the minimum timeframe.

In terms of pay, you'd get ~55k in your first year out as an Intern and it goes up by a bit each year. Once you've gained acceptance as a Fellow of your college (FRACS etc.) then you get what's called a provider number, so you can bill Medicare. At this point you can set yourself up as a consultant and start trying to run your own business (or, more likely, keep working in the hospital because you have no patient base). Eventually you'll start shifting more and more to private practice, where you can get a lot of money. A LOT of money. My specialist makes $100 off me for a 20 minute consult, which is ~$300/hr. Even working, say, 6 hours a day, 4 days a week, 40 weeks a year...well...you do the math.

That pathway (of complete private practice) is the "business" of medicine and some people just don't like it. It's up to you to find a balance, but nobody is going to say that doctors don't make money, they just have to work hard for it.

One thing I will say about medicine, is what my consultant told me: your life will be different forever, because it's a job for life. So if you're interested and committed, then it's fantastic but if not, then think about other options

Thanks for your advice, Russ.

I've always wanted to be in a job where I can make a real difference in somebody's life and I know that both medicine and law would definitely do this for me. It's this main goal that's really put me off jobs like journalism, IT or engineering. They certainly do help people, but not quite to the extent that law, and definitely medicine, can do.

Would you mind recommending some areas of medicine that do not require surgery (I know there's heaps -.-)? I've had a look into radiology recently and that job seems to fit my description. I've also considered pharmaceutical science, but I've heard it's pay isn't overly special and jobs can be hard to come by. I'm not sure if I'd get bored of it after a few years either.

[Russ]

Basically anything from the RACP (Royal Australasian College of Physicians, http://www.racp.edu.au/) will let you not be a surgeon. Check out their site, especially the training pathways page for an idea of what fields that is.

Pharmaceutical science doesn't strike me as a medical degree specialty, more some with a BSc and postgrad training there

[dc302]

Basically anything from the RACP (Royal Australasian College of Physicians, http://www.racp.edu.au/) will let you not be a surgeon. Check out their site, especially the training pathways page for an idea of what fields that is.

Pharmaceutical science doesn't strike me as a medical degree specialty, more some with a BSc and postgrad training there

Although that doesn't mean you don't get to cut/perform invasive procedures on people. For example, cardiologists may perform some of these even though we have cardiothoracic surgeons for the 'real' surgery.

[Stick]

Thanks for the link. Looks like there's a number of areas for me to explore.