School Rankings

[taiga]

On what basis?

[Planck's constant]

On what basis?

MHS students are academically strong.
But, could a school like Scotch or MGS could get more improvement out of a MHS student than MHS can ?

[pi]

What do you mean by "improvement"?

[funkyducky]

I think he means certain other schools can transform a fairly average student into an A/A+ student. MHS' intake is mostly A/A+ students...

[Planck's constant]

What do you mean by "improvement"?

I was thinking whether someone with your obvious ability could have got an even higher ATAR at MGS than at MHS

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[Jdog]

On what basis?

People have the idea that MHS and Macrob are the be all and end all, just beacuse they get the highest academic results. I think its something that happens in most indian and asian families. They fail to consider that when you go to these schools, you are constantly surrounded by the same sort of people. The diversity of environment is lacking.

Furthermore, they don't do nearly as well as you would expect, given that they academically select all of their students. Their median atar hovers around 93 94 95. Private schools, hover around 90 91 92, yet the added bonus you get in not only facilities, but pastoral care severly tips the scales.  Id even say, that the top end in a lot of the top private school is better than the MHS top end.

[pi]

Just because the students are academically selected, that doesn't mean we don't have diversity.  In fact, I'd argue that we'd have MORE diversity simply because we have students from a wider range of socio-economic backgrounds, ie. not the 99% "rich" kids as in the elite private schools.

On your second point, the difference between a 90/1 median and a 94/5/6 median is huge and a lot of kids would take that extra academic acheivement over 6 tennis courts, 5 ovals and whatnot tbh.

As for the top ends, thats probably true, however MHS and Mac.Rob can't put in the "effort" to "nurture" our best kids like what the elite private schools are known to do due to our lack of funds. Furthermore, thats not why our schools were made selective in the first place. We have a completely different ethos.

@argonaut, having never been to an elite private school, thats a difficult question. But I doubt I would have done better at MGS or Scotch.

[Planck's constant]

@argonaut, having never been to an elite private school, thats a difficult question. But I doubt I would have done better at MGS or Scotch.

I agree, its a difficult question, and perhaps it doesnt make much difference to ambitious and motivated students like your good self.
Perhaps an easier question would be whether MHS could have delivered better ATAR's for the Scotch student cohort than Scotch did.

.
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[fuzzylogic]

Just because the students are academically selected, that doesn't mean we don't have diversity.  In fact, I'd argue that we'd have MORE diversity simply because we have students from a wider range of socio-economic backgrounds, ie. not the 99% "rich" kids as in the elite private schools.

On your second point, the difference between a 90/1 median and a 94/5/6 median is huge and a lot of kids would take that extra academic acheivement over 6 tennis courts, 5 ovals and whatnot tbh.

As for the top ends, thats probably true, however MHS and Mac.Rob can't put in the "effort" to "nurture" our best kids like what the elite private schools are known to do due to our lack of funds. Furthermore, thats not why our schools were made selective in the first place. We have a completely different ethos.

@argonaut, having never been to an elite private school, thats a difficult question. But I doubt I would have done better at MGS or Scotch.

I don't know if this is what jdog meant when he mentioned diversity of environment being lacking at selective schools, but my opinion is that almost every student at mhs/macrob is completely geared at doing their absolute best academically- as in, getting the best possible mark.  Whereas at many private schools, of course there are quite a lot of students with that mindset, but also a lot who may have different priorities (although I can't really say that about my own year level where I went).

Also, a 3 - 4 even 5 score difference in median ATARs, doesn't seem that significant, given that selective schools take 3-4 of the top achieving students from private schools. 

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[pi]

Also, a 3 - 4 even 5 score difference in median ATARs, doesn't seem that significant, given that selective schools take 3-4 of the top achieving students from private schools. 

In comparison the "elite private schools" JDog is referring to, I don't think MHS/Mac.Rob actually do take their best students actually. The people from my year level from Scotch were not the top achievers and I don't think we had anyone from MGS (to my knowledge). The number of students MHS (as an example) gets from the likes of Scotch, PEGS, MGS, Xavier, CGS are very few and probably add up to <7 combined (out of a cohort of 330+). And none of those tend to be in our top 10% of the cohort anyway (not in my year level at least). So I don't think your point is valid for the "elite private schools" as referred to by JDog.

It's probably true for the average private school (and public school for that matter) though

[Russ]

The fact students tend to not want to leave the elite private schools should probably tell you something though.

[fuzzylogic]

Also, a 3 - 4 even 5 score difference in median ATARs, doesn't seem that significant, given that selective schools take 3-4 of the top achieving students from private schools. 

In comparison the "elite private schools" JDog is referring to, I don't think MHS/Mac.Rob actually do take their best students actually. The people from my year level from Scotch were not the top achievers and I don't think we had anyone from MGS (to my knowledge). The number of students MHS (as an example) gets from the likes of Scotch, PEGS, MGS, Xavier, CGS are very few and probably add up to <7 combined (out of a cohort of 330+). And none of those tend to be in our top 10% of the cohort anyway (not in my year level at least). So I don't think your point is valid for the "elite private schools" as referred to by JDog.

It's probably true for the average private school (and public school for that matter) though

Fair enough...though from our year level, and the few year levels above us, the girls who went to macrob were some of the academically strongest students.

The fact students tend to not want to leave the elite private schools should probably tell you something though.

^+1

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[pi]

The fact students tend to not want to leave the elite private schools should probably tell you something though.

That depends if it is the best students not wanting to leave or if their parents don't want them to leave.

If its the students (and many of the private top students don't even try out), then I don't see how that puts a bad light on selective schools. If they were to move schools, not only would that take them out of their comfort zone to adjust to a new school, but they'd also have to pay back all their scholarship fees (I'm assuming that most 99.90+ private school students have scholarships, which is probably true). It's just easier and cheaper to stay in their private school for them, and fair enough. Perhaps if they didn't have to pay back fees and such, selective schools might "steal" more of them.


edit: and this:

But, could a school like Scotch or MGS could get more improvement out of a MHS student than MHS can ?

@argonaut, having never been to an elite private school, thats a difficult question. But I doubt I would have done better at MGS or Scotch.

I agree, its a difficult question, and perhaps it doesnt make much difference to ambitious and motivated students

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Jdog]

Just because the students are academically selected, that doesn't mean we don't have diversity.  In fact, I'd argue that we'd have MORE diversity simply because we have students from a wider range of socio-economic backgrounds, ie. not the 99% "rich" kids as in the elite private schools.

On your second point, the difference between a 90/1 median and a 94/5/6 median is huge and a lot of kids would take that extra academic acheivement over 6 tennis courts, 5 ovals and whatnot tbh.

As for the top ends, thats probably true, however MHS and Mac.Rob can't put in the "effort" to "nurture" our best kids like what the elite private schools are known to do due to our lack of funds. Furthermore, thats not why our schools were made selective in the first place. We have a completely different ethos.

@argonaut, having never been to an elite private school, thats a difficult question. But I doubt I would have done better at MGS or Scotch.

You are grossly mistaken if you think private schools kids are all rich. In fact id say 90% of tthe stuendets have parents busting their gut to send their kids to private schools. Even the kids who are rich value that theyve been sent there. Of course there are those who are both rich and don't care about their education, but that will inevitably happen. And no I don't think that 3-4 difference in median atar is huge.

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[aes_999]

Well, the 3 - 4 percent difference in median ATAR
is actually huge, depending where you want to go.

 On Monash Clayton, getting a 90 - 91 instead of
94 - 95 means you miss the chance to do most double degrees
(except probably law double degree).

On Melbourne, 90 - 91 compared to 94 - 95 means you miss
out on commerce, which is rather inconvenient if you live near
to Melbourne and you don't get in, so it can mean a lot.