Why Iran engages in Holocaust denial

[MuggedByReality]

     Article written in 2006, but (obviously) still very much relevant today:

    http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2006/12/why-deny-the-holocaust.php



   
    Also, Israeli PM Netanyahu recently saved his best oratory skills for me
       (...and a few thousand other young people)
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3fxXmkTGjg&feature=player_embedded#!
           

[sunintherain]

They're denying the holcuast  becuase they want Israel wiped off the map, and I'm sure to receive hate for this comment but I don't think he is entierly wrong.
After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible. Look at the Jewish people kicking Palestiniens out of their homes, killing their children and beating thier women. Everybody feels so bad for them and what they had to suffer through with Hitler but they are acting no better.
I also understand that Jewish people just wanted a safe haven to live in given all the anit- semitic programs in place but it was really not their place to decide that a country in which they used to inhabite hundreds of years ago could suddenly be theirs agian. I wonder if they even considerd that there was a whole other nation of people living there. 
I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

[Camo]

You can't deny the holocaust, it happened and innocent people lost their lives.

They're denying the holcuast  becuase they want Israel wiped off the map, and I'm sure to receive hate for this comment but I don't think he is entierly wrong.
After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible. Look at the Jewish people kicking Palestiniens out of their homes, killing their children and beating thier women. Everybody feels so bad for them and what they had to suffer through with Hitler but they are acting no better.
I also understand that Jewish people just wanted a safe haven to live in given all the anit- semitic programs in place but it was really not their place to decide that a country in which they used to inhabite hundreds of years ago could suddenly be theirs agian. I wonder if they even considerd that there was a whole other nation of people living there. 
I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

Can you please supply with some credible evidence please, to be honest I've never heard of this.

[Thu Thu Train]

I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

Wat.

[sunintherain]

About the

You can't deny the holocaust, it happened and innocent people lost their lives.

They're denying the holcuast  becuase they want Israel wiped off the map, and I'm sure to receive hate for this comment but I don't think he is entierly wrong.
After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible. Look at the Jewish people kicking Palestiniens out of their homes, killing their children and beating thier women. Everybody feels so bad for them and what they had to suffer through with Hitler but they are acting no better.
I also understand that Jewish people just wanted a safe haven to live in given all the anit- semitic programs in place but it was really not their place to decide that a country in which they used to inhabite hundreds of years ago could suddenly be theirs agian. I wonder if they even considerd that there was a whole other nation of people living there. 
I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

Can you please supply with some credible evidence please, to be honest I've never heard of this.

I'm not denying the Holcaust. I just realised I din't really state my contention in my post and that it may be misleading given what the topic was about. It seems many of you have limited knowledge of the conflict between Palestine and Israel and the history of it, that is probably why you took my post out of context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
"Palestine, divided between the Vilayets of Damascus and Beirut and the Mustafiyyet of Jerusalem, was inhabited predominantly by Arab Muslims, both farmers and Bedouin (principally in the Negev and Jordan valley), with smaller numbers of Christians (predominantly Arab), Druze, Circassians and Jews (predominantly Sephardic).[2] At that time most of the Jews worldwide lived outside of Palestine
"Though the Jewish aspiration to return to Zion had been part of Jewish religious thought for a millennia, the Jewish population of Europe and to some degree Middle East began to more actively discuss immigration back to the Land of Israel, and the re-establishment of the Jewish Nation in its national homeland, only during the 1870s and 1880s, largely as a solution to the widespread persecution of Jews due to anti-Semitism in Russia and Europe. As a result, the Zionist movement, the modern movement for the creation of a homeland for the Jewish people"
As for how the people of Israel are treating the Palistinians you only have to watch SBS world news to see it.

[fuzzylogic]

After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible.

If my history serves me right, I believe it wasn't as simple as Jewish people deciding to invade palestine... In 1947 the United Nations voted for a Partition plan to give birth to Israel plus there was some sort of British mandate I think...

[ham4]

They're denying the holcuast  becuase they want Israel wiped off the map, and I'm sure to receive hate for this comment but I don't think he is entierly wrong.
After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible. Look at the Jewish people kicking Palestiniens out of their homes, killing their children and beating thier women. Everybody feels so bad for them and what they had to suffer through with Hitler but they are acting no better.
I also understand that Jewish people just wanted a safe haven to live in given all the anit- semitic programs in place but it was really not their place to decide that a country in which they used to inhabite hundreds of years ago could suddenly be theirs agian. I wonder if they even considerd that there was a whole other nation of people living there. 
I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

You sir, are ridiculous. That post is ridiculous. I am going out right now, but if someone doesn't shut you down by the time I get back I will proceed to. Goddamn I feel stupider for reading that .

Teewreck, you sir are a fruitcake. And I want to goble you up. It's people like you who make society cringe, ignorance is your middle name it seems. What sunintherain has said is spot on, hell even the Jews agree with that. In no way did she defend Iran's denial of the holocaust. Please go read some history off a children's book, maybe you'd be more educated in the arab-israeli conflict. Really don't have time to write about the history of Jerusalem pre/post WWII. But I'll be back.

Acrimony, I wouldn't say sunintherain's account of history was 'spot on', rather it was a broad and slightly embellished account of history which was rather one-sided. I highly doubt that 'most Jews would agree' with what he said.

That said, I do agree that Israel certainly had a case to answer when they extended their borders and, certainly, Palestinians have the right to be pretty pissed-off with the situation they find themselves in.

However, one thing which I completely do not agree with is this comment:

I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

The fact is that now, in 2012, we are stuck with two states who are both 'causing trouble'. I must feel sympathy for people who live in Israel in fear of being bombed every day, just as I feel sympathy for people living in Palestine in fear of being bombed every day. Palestinians need to learn to accept that a two-state solution is the only way forward and that to try to drive Israel into the sea is futile and counter-productive. Whether or not they're on the right side of history doesn't matter anymore. If people aren't willing to negotiate and stop fighting then everything will just turn to shit again. President Nettanyahu said earlier this year that Hamas is the 'Israeli equivalent of Al Qaeda'. And I don't blame Israelis for feeling this way when they see thousands of missiles being fired over the border at them every year.

Both sides, for lack of a better term need to chill the fuck out and negotiate... And for Palestine, this partly involves making real attempts to stop much of Hamas' activities.

(and to clarify, by 'Palestine' (when used opposed to 'Israel'), I mean the Gaza strip and the West Bank... that one always causes confusion)

[Truck]

They're denying the holcuast  becuase they want Israel wiped off the map, and I'm sure to receive hate for this comment but I don't think he is entierly wrong.
After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible. Look at the Jewish people kicking Palestiniens out of their homes, killing their children and beating thier women. Everybody feels so bad for them and what they had to suffer through with Hitler but they are acting no better.
I also understand that Jewish people just wanted a safe haven to live in given all the anit- semitic programs in place but it was really not their place to decide that a country in which they used to inhabite hundreds of years ago could suddenly be theirs agian. I wonder if they even considerd that there was a whole other nation of people living there. 
I have nothing against Jewish people, just the ones in Israel/Palestine causing trouble.

K, the "official" movement for Israel began with Herzl and his publishing of his book in 1896 . [source: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2004/7/Herzl+and+Zionism.htm]. While the Holocaust no doubt added further evidence to a need for a Jewish state, it was by no means the beginning of the idea NOR was it the major turning point in the process. Btw, for over 2000 years there had been a desire to return to the land anyway, so in reality WW2 has little to do with why the country was established.

Jewish settlers [source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/redeem.html] began then, in Ottoman times (before the Mandate) by LEGALLY purchasing land from Arab owners and then bringing in (again, legally) settlers to till it. There was no "stealing" of land - it was all purchased 100% legally.

The whole "kicking Palestinians out of homes" is propaganda and hyperbole. I could just as easily be linking you to articles about suicide bombers and thus claim every muslim = radical islamist, but I like to think that after having an education I am a bit better then that. The Israeli military follows international conventions far more rigorously then any opposing military and any claim of "rape/murder" is baseless and unsubstantiated.

Your latter post pretty much sums up your arguments. "You only need to watch SBS world news to see it" - in other words I know nothing about the complexity behind the issue and will just parrot what the television tells me. When you do some research come back to me.

[Mech]

After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible.

If my history serves me right, I believe it wasn't as simple as Jewish people deciding to invade palestine... In 1947 the United Nations voted for a Partition plan to give birth to Israel plus there was some sort of British mandate I think...

I was thinking this, too, but my history in this area is pretty off.

[Mao]

Jewish settlers [source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/redeem.html] began then, in Ottoman times (before the Mandate) by LEGALLY purchasing land from Arab owners and then bringing in (again, legally) settlers to till it. There was no "stealing" of land - it was all purchased 100% legally.

You cannot deny that Israel did push beyond its boundaries at one stage, and then built settlements in new territories against the Geneva Convention. That has now been acknowledged, and mostly rectified, but it still did happen. Not everything Israel did was 100% holistic and righteous. The same applies to Palestine.

There is no 'right' side to this problem.

The whole "kicking Palestinians out of homes" is propaganda and hyperbole. I could just as easily be linking you to articles about suicide bombers and thus claim every muslim = radical islamist, but I like to think that after having an education I am a bit better then that. The Israeli military follows international conventions far more rigorously then any opposing military and any claim of "rape/murder" is baseless and unsubstantiated.

Your latter post pretty much sums up your arguments. "You only need to watch SBS world news to see it" - in other words I know nothing about the complexity behind the issue and will just parrot what the television tells me. When you do some research come back to me.

You have dismissed sunintherain's statement without material proof in the first paragraph, and the second paragraph is a straw-man.

This is therefore an official warning for the quoted paragraphs. You of course understand how controversial this topic is, dismissal without proof and straw-man will quickly derail this thread into flaming. Further incidents will have consequences.

[matt123]

because the prime minister AHMADINEJAD is a absolute faggot.
he wants to wipe isreal off the map as he already has stated many times " marg bar israil " = may all of isreal die and perish.

hes makes me so mad
disgracing us iranians ... hes an absolute greed infested retarded dickhead religious fanatical loser who is destroying our society.

[Mao]

After WW2 the Jewish people belived that just becuase they had been mistreated in Germany that it was okay for them to go and invade Palestine just because it was thier land in the Bible.

If my history serves me right, I believe it wasn't as simple as Jewish people deciding to invade palestine... In 1947 the United Nations voted for a Partition plan to give birth to Israel plus there was some sort of British mandate I think...

I was thinking this, too, but my history in this area is pretty off.

It was very messy. I don't believe the UN vote was fair, considering Western nations have a greater representation than Arab nations. What made it worse is that neither sides (Zionists vs Arab Council) would compromise. This then continued to cause problems until now. The vote should never have gone through in my opinion, both sides never reached an agreement.

[Mech]

It was very messy. I don't believe the UN vote was fair, considering Western nations have a greater representation than Arab nations. What made it worse is that neither sides (Zionists vs Arab Council) would compromise. This then continued to cause problems until now. The vote should never have gone through in my opinion, both sides never reached an agreement.

Cheers for that, Mao. I really need to brush up on all of this. I think it is just plain unfortunate what happened. Not really been a very amicable agreement for everyone involved.

[Truck]

Jewish settlers [source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/redeem.html] began then, in Ottoman times (before the Mandate) by LEGALLY purchasing land from Arab owners and then bringing in (again, legally) settlers to till it. There was no "stealing" of land - it was all purchased 100% legally.

You cannot deny that Israel did push beyond its boundaries at one stage, and then built settlements in new territories against the Geneva Convention. That has now been acknowledged, and mostly rectified, but it still did happen. Not everything Israel did was 100% holistic and righteous. The same applies to Palestine.

There is no 'right' side to this problem.

The whole "kicking Palestinians out of homes" is propaganda and hyperbole. I could just as easily be linking you to articles about suicide bombers and thus claim every muslim = radical islamist, but I like to think that after having an education I am a bit better then that. The Israeli military follows international conventions far more rigorously then any opposing military and any claim of "rape/murder" is baseless and unsubstantiated.

Your latter post pretty much sums up your arguments. "You only need to watch SBS world news to see it" - in other words I know nothing about the complexity behind the issue and will just parrot what the television tells me. When you do some research come back to me.

You have dismissed sunintherain's statement without material proof in the first paragraph, and the second paragraph is a straw-man.

This is therefore an official warning for the quoted paragraphs. You of course understand how controversial this topic is, dismissal without proof and straw-man will quickly derail this thread into flaming. Further incidents will have consequences.

Agreed there is no 100% right side to this problem, never claimed that, only that at the time the land WAS bought legally. The settlement building is also contentious and I will agree with you there, but that wasn't really my point, only that Palestine was never really "invaded".

I shouldn't have to provide evidence for the first statement as he's the one claiming it without any proof... Everything he claimed in that post was without any proof and I was simply calling him out on that, if he had provided some proof himself on cases of kicking those people out it'd be different.

If you're going to give me a warning for not providing material evidence then you should give yourself one for the "You cannot deny that Israel did push beyond its boundaries at one stage, and then built settlements in new territories against the Geneva Convention. That has now been acknowledged, and mostly rectified, but it still did happen. Not everything Israel did was 100% holistic and righteous. The same applies to Palestine", as you didn't provide any material proof of that either.

The straw man is fair enough though, my bad.

[Mao]

@Teewreck, the burden of proof is upon the accuser. semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

If you're going to give me a warning for not providing material evidence then you should give yourself one for the "You cannot deny that Israel did push beyond its boundaries at one stage, and then built settlements in new territories against the Geneva Convention. That has now been acknowledged, and mostly rectified, but it still did happen. Not everything Israel did was 100% holistic and righteous. The same applies to Palestine", as you didn't provide any material proof of that either.

Apologies, I did not link where I sourced the fact. As this information was already mentioned a previous post (ham4) without dispute, I did not feel I needed to reference these.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement and other links in text.