Do public school students perform better in uni than private school students?

[nisha]

This is my take on this. If you come from a family that struggles to scrape by every months or is not that well off, then you try to do your best, work hard and try to get further in life. That being said that doesn't mean that there are not students form private schools who do not work just as hard when they get to university.

In all schools you will have those who work hard and those who just get lazy and don't try as much as they could, regardless of whether they came from a private or public school. It doesn't depend on what kind of school you come from, it will depend on how hard you motivate yourself resulting in how hard you work.

Also on the access/seas stuff, in some cases I'd say that people I know needed it, otherwise everything would all just be too hard, but then in other cases its just ridiculous. I.e. They can afford two tutors all year and then get in with lower atars because of the area that their school is in.

Exactly

It all comesdown to the type of person that you are. In the end Macrob/Melbourne High/Balwyn High kids are not the ONLY public school students (not all of them are super-smart) that go to university. But it helps, I guess if your school environment has drilled into you that "study will help" or to encourage high-achievers in all aspects. It hacts as a foundation. But then again, it depends on the person that u are.

[Mariammm]

This is my take on this. If you come from a family that struggles to scrape by every months or is not that well off, then you try to do your best, work hard and try to get further in life. That being said that doesn't mean that there are not students form private schools who do not work just as hard when they get to university.

In all schools you will have those who work hard and those who just get lazy and don't try as much as they could, regardless of whether they came from a private or public school. It doesn't depend on what kind of school you come from, it will depend on how hard you motivate yourself resulting in how hard you work.

Also on the access/seas stuff, in some cases I'd say that people I know needed it, otherwise everything would all just be too hard, but then in other cases its just ridiculous. I.e. They can afford two tutors all year and then get in with lower atars because of the area that their school is in.

Exactly

It all comesdown to the type of person that you are. In the end Macrob/Melbourne High/Balwyn High kids are not the ONLY public school students (not all of them are super-smart) that go to university. But it helps, I guess if your school environment has drilled into you that "study will help" or to encourage high-achievers in all aspects. It hacts as a foundation. But then again, it depends on the person that u are.

^^ i completely agree - you just can't generalise

[Eriny]

There is evidence to suggest that if Person A went to a public school and Person B went to a private school, and both got the same ATAR, on average, Person A would get better uni marks than person B. That is to say, if ATAR is held constant, public school students perform better. This paper: http://www.business.curtin.edu.au/files/04_4.pdf is an example of such evidence. Note that the disparity isn't exactly huge on average, but there is one nonetheless and it affirms the value of special entry schemes.

[Mariammm]

There is evidence to suggest that if Person A went to a public school and Person B went to a private school, and both got the same ATAR, on average, Person A would get better uni marks than person B. That is to say, if ATAR is held constant, public school students perform better. This paper: http://www.business.curtin.edu.au/files/04_4.pdf is an example of such evidence. Note that the disparity isn't exactly huge on average, but there is one nonetheless and it affirms the value of special entry schemes.

What are the reasons behind that?? I haven't read the paper yet... maybe that will answer my question

[gs]

This paper: http://www.business.curtin.edu.au/files/04_4.pdf is an example of such evidence. Note that the disparity isn't exactly huge on average, but there is one nonetheless and it affirms the value of special entry schemes.

Special entry access schemes are definitely warranted, hopefully this can wake a few people up.

[gemgem49]

This is my take on this. If you come from a family that struggles to scrape by every months or is not that well off, then you try to do your best, work hard and try to get further in life. That being said that doesn't mean that there are not students form private schools who do not work just as hard when they get to university.

From what I've seen, I don't necessarily agree with the first part of this. There are some who might use their struggling family as motivation to push themselves into doing better. I guess I would consider myself an example of this.

But I think there is an issue with kids from uneducated, abusive or struggling families who because of their upbringing don't have anyone to instill that motivation in them to do well in the first place. I feel rather than using their situation to motivate them, they often fall short because they haven't been encouraged or taught the importance of education in the first place. Idk, I just feel like even with SEAS, not everyone has the same opportunity to pursue higher education. Which is why an emphasis on welfare for the underprivileged is important (sorry liberals ^__^). SEAS is pretty useless if teens don't care about higher education to even make it to this point. This is from my point of view as someone who has come from a struggling family. Some make it through but many get lost in the cracks. /ramble

SEAS reminds me centrelink. Somehow I wonder HOWWW people got approved for it because their circumstances don't seem to deserve it, especially when I've seen people that in my opinion are more needy, get rejected for it.


Also, what does being 'spoon-fed' actually mean? I went to a public school and I can't understand how this works, exactly. How can teachers spoon feed you the answers any more than a (decent) public school can. My legal studies teacher was always like 'this is what they're looking for in this type of answer, the exam structure will look like this _____". Is 'spoon-feeding' more than this??

[Eriny]

There is evidence to suggest that if Person A went to a public school and Person B went to a private school, and both got the same ATAR, on average, Person A would get better uni marks than person B. That is to say, if ATAR is held constant, public school students perform better. This paper: http://www.business.curtin.edu.au/files/04_4.pdf is an example of such evidence. Note that the disparity isn't exactly huge on average, but there is one nonetheless and it affirms the value of special entry schemes.

What are the reasons behind that?? I haven't read the paper yet... maybe that will answer my question

It isn't really elaborated on that much, but the paper says:
"the underperformance of students from Catholic and Independent schools compared
to Government schools at university level is more likely to be a reflection of a correction that
has taken place in terms of relative TER achievement rather than due to the specific school
characteristics that were examined in this paper. In other words, it suggests that the TER of
students from non-Government schools may have been artificially inflated relative to the raw
abilities of these students."

An article from The Guardian also talks about this phenomenon: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/03/state-school-pupils-university

[berryy]

Students who attend private schools are likely to perform better than public school students in VCE (think of the amount of scummy public schools out there). When you reach Uni, and lets take Melb uni as an example, the majority of students come from schools that did very well overall in VCE.

There are also those who scrape through into Melb via SEAS (from not reaching the atar requirement). <-- I tend to find that these students fail more than anyone else if i was to generalise

Since your atar ranks you with your peers, it is a good but rough estimate of how you will perform in uni. I know uni kids from MHS/Mcrob/private schools who have failed subjects but they only make up a small amount compared to those with lower atars.

You really shouldnt ask about the school but more about the individual and the potential they have.

Basically, decent atar score = decent uni results. Of course this fluctuates depending on how much you study, whether you enjoy your subjects or whether you party too much

[b^3]

This is my take on this. If you come from a family that struggles to scrape by every months or is not that well off, then you try to do your best, work hard and try to get further in life. That being said that doesn't mean that there are not students form private schools who do not work just as hard when they get to university.

From what I've seen, I don't necessarily agree with the first part of this. There are some who might use their struggling family as motivation to push themselves into doing better. I guess I would consider myself an example of this.

But I think there is an issue with kids from uneducated, abusive or struggling families who because of their upbringing don't have anyone to instill that motivation in them to do well in the first place. I feel rather than using their situation to motivate them, they often fall short because they haven't been encouraged or taught the importance of education in the first place. Idk, I just feel like even with SEAS, not everyone has the same opportunity to pursue higher education. Which is why an emphasis on welfare for the underprivileged is important (sorry liberals ^__^). SEAS is pretty useless if teens don't care about higher education to even make it to this point. This is from my point of view as someone who has come from a struggling family. Some make it through but many get lost in the cracks. /ramble

I do see your point here, unfortunately from what I've seen there are some who are not able to live up to their full potential because of this, and may not even make it to university as a result.

SEAS reminds me centrelink. Somehow I wonder HOWWW people got approved for it because their circumstances don't seem to deserve it, especially when I've seen people that in my opinion are more needy, get rejected for it.

A BIG +1 to this, a lot of people take advantage of the system while others who really need it get nothing.

[pi]

SEAS reminds me centrelink. Somehow I wonder HOWWW people got approved for it because their circumstances don't seem to deserve it, especially when I've seen people that in my opinion are more needy, get rejected for it.

A BIG +1 to this, a lot of people take advantage of the system while others who really need it get nothing.

+2, I think the "worst" SEAS is the one about living in a "poor" suburb. Its ridiculous how many people who are actually quite rich take advantage of this, just because they live in a suburb that isn't well-off.

[b^3]

Probably shouldn't be dishing out on SEAS too much because in some cases it actually does what its supposed to do. But as in all systems there are some flaws.

[schnappy]

Also, I'd criticise the Melbourne Access Program quite a bit. From my school, I knew most of the people chosen quite well and they were by no means disadvantaged, in fact on the other end of the scale.

This. It's a disgrace.

[Eriny]

Students who attend private schools are likely to perform better than public school students in VCE (think of the amount of scummy public schools out there). When you reach Uni, and lets take Melb uni as an example, the majority of students come from schools that did very well overall in VCE.

There are also those who scrape through into Melb via SEAS (from not reaching the atar requirement). <-- I tend to find that these students fail more than anyone else if i was to generalise

But in the study I linked to, public school students who got in with an ATAR of 70 (so 'scraped through' because of special entry schemes) managed to get, on average, the same first year university results as Catholic school students who got around 75, or private school students who got around a 77. Unfortunately your generalisation does not count as actual evidence.

In regard to the validity of SEAS generally (and this is not directed at anyone in particular), you might have hundreds of stories of people who you think are guilty 'wroughting' the system. That does not mean that you are aware of their actual circumstances or what their bank balance is, or what advantages or disadvantages they may or may not have had. For all you know, they may have been hiding an illness, or may have been poorer than they seemed - it is impossible for you to just speculate on others' circumstances from afar. Special entry schemes (and centrelink, for that matter) should be better targeted to people who really need those services, but that does necessarily mean that overall their affects are bad or that equity isn't a worthwhile goal. The charge that the way these things are administered aren't necessarily perfect does not outright invalidate them.

[Mech]

Riny, would you agree that it is hard to balance between merit and equity principles in admissions programs? No disagreeing with you, just interested in your opinion. 

[nisha]

There is evidence to suggest that if Person A went to a public school and Person B went to a private school, and both got the same ATAR, on average, Person A would get better uni marks than person B. That is to say, if ATAR is held constant, public school students perform better. This paper: http://www.business.curtin.edu.au/files/04_4.pdf is an example of such evidence. Note that the disparity isn't exactly huge on average, but there is one nonetheless and it affirms the value of special entry schemes.

Well. Uh. VCE AND University exams are very different things. Different structure, different requirements, different completely. So it is not entirely fair to compare, despite your evidence. I think that is enough said.