Know of any lawyers that started off with an ENTER/ATAR of 81?

[Peter_1993]

Ever since achieving an ATAR of 81, I'm beginning to become quite skeptical of whether my dreams of becoming a lawyer are unrealistic and beyond my capabilities. To be honest, I do believe I could've received a better ATAR if I put more work into my VCE but that is beyond the picture now.

So as the title asks: do you know any lawyers that received an ENTER/ATAR of 81? Or do you know anyone that is currently completing a post-graduate equivalent law course with an ENTER/ATAR with 81?

To broaden my question and hopefully motivate me; do you know of anyone that received a similar ENTER/ATAR and are now currently averaging a 75%+ in their tertiary studies (UoM Arts)? I'm definitely aiming to pursue a post-graduate Juris Doctor from the University of Melbourne after the completion of my Arts degree but this requires an average of 75%+ throughout the whole degree as well as performing well on the LSAT (which I am confident - but not over-confident - about because I tend to do well on standardised tests of this sort).

[Mech]

You could have probably done law at Victoria University (not that I would advise it). Also an aspiring lawyer and looking at the path you took; however, I got a high enough ATAR to do law at most of the other universities but Monash. I also have a strong liking of academics, so I put the University of Melbourne's Arts first in my preferences and then I can decide if law is for me. Furthermore, I do not see why you cannot get into law. Even if you do not get into UoM's Juris Doctorate, you could transfer to another university and even enter an undergraduate level law degree (LLB) and not a JD. End up being able to do the same job, just it wont be as internationally recognised.

Chill out, relax. If you got into Arts at UoM with an 81 this year, it means you got in via SEAS. You have had some form of disadvantage and still managed to get into one of the most competitive Arts program in the country (if not the most). Stop beating yourself up and worrying about graduate level stuff now; you have three years to sort your mind up about what you really want and attempt entry into the JD at UoM.

[nacho]

ATAR is all about hardwork,
im sure many people with lower than 81 ATAR are lawyers
just pick yourself up is all and try making good study habits
no need for something silly like year 12 results deter you or demotivate you

[86]

The ATAR only matters so much for a very brief period. For most people it's already a thing of the past and it's the courses that are all the talk now. The key is, there is always a way into doing whatever you want, if you're willing to work for it. It's a vague statement I know, but it's true - and an ATAR of 81 is very good, congratulations

[Peter_1993]

I 100% believe I deserved the ATAR I received considering I didn't attend all my classes and did absolutely no work during the year up until the last two weeks before examinations. In the last couple of months however, I've decided that I can't go on with this destructive habit anymore. I have regrets, yes, but I honestly don't see a future where I would be working for one of the Big Six with such a terrible ATAR. I browse through the portfolios of lawyers working in these prestigious law  firms and they all seem to be the types of people to achieve 99.

I'm just afraid of the correlation between ATAR and GPA and that I won't be able to achieve the 75%+ average required to do pursue the Juris Doctor. I know it's selfish and stupid of me to say this; but I don't want to pursue any alternative law degrees because the reality is that alternatives can only get you so far.

Do you guys know of anyone in your course or maybe even a friend who has gone beyond the typical correlation of ATAR/GPA and are now averaging H1/H2As with a mediocre ATAR?

[Mech]

I'm just afraid of the correlation between ATAR and GPA and that I won't be able to achieve the 75%+ average required to do pursue the Juris Doctor. I know it's selfish and stupid of me to say this; but I don't want to pursue any alternative law degrees because the reality is that alternatives can only get you so far.

Well, you are wrong on two counts. Firstly, you assume that there is this strict correlation between ATAR and GPA; this is somewhat true, but it reflects work ethic more than intelligence. As you worked poorly, you got a lower (but still an excellent) result than expected. If you realize ATAR and GPA correlate more to work ethic than intelligence, you will realize you can boost you results with just putting more effort in. Stop with this self-defeated attitude and just accept you can do it; put the effort in, and you will succeed. Life is about effort. Secondly, you sound stupid because plenty of universities can offer you just as good a law degree (Monash's JD or even their LLB which has the same content, I believe) except it might not be a graduate level degree and therefore lack the luster in the international arena. If you think your university, your alma mater, alone makes a barrister or solicitor, you have another thing coming. Prestige is somewhat important in law and so I would encourage you to aim high, but you can do equally as well at a lower-tier law school if you, once again, put in the effort and have a personality conducive to the career.

EDIT: Sorry I was harsh there. I just think it is a bit stubborn to say what you said. Forgive my abrasiveness; it does not excuse my manner.

[taiga]

You are not your ATAR . If you think you have a badwork ethic, fix it. Your ATAR is now a thing of the past and you have the rest of your life to prove it.

I have no doubt that there are people who didn't graduate from high school who are now lawyers.

[Greatness]

I dont know if this helps but there are successful entrepreneurs who have no qualifications however through their hard work and determination they have achieved what seemed impossible. For example my friend's dad dropped out in year 10 and is now a very successful project manager or something for bluescope.

[iamtom]

Friend just transferred into Deakin Law @ Burwood from Deakin Primary Education @ Warnambool, and she also failed 2 units... she got an ATAR of ~60

[Menang]

You are definitely not your ATAR, but at the same time there must also have been reasons why you didn't work as hard in VCE.

I guess it's up to you to pick up your game and change your work ethic for uni. It's not impossible, but at the same time law still is a relatively competitive field. The major law firms/practices will probably only consider Melbourne/Monash graduates with impressive grades, but there are plenty of smaller firms to get work from as well.

Just as a piece of anecdotal evidence, though, a family friend graduated VCE in 2005 with an ENTER in the 80's, did Commerce/Law at Deakin, but is now struggling to find a job.

Just be aware that unless you do work really hard in uni, simply holding a law degree (that's not from Melbourne or Monash) will not guarantee employment either.

[grevenchorf]

Ever since achieving an ATAR of 81, I'm beginning to become quite skeptical of whether my dreams of becoming a lawyer are unrealistic and beyond my capabilities. To be honest, I do believe I could've received a better ATAR if I put more work into my VCE but that is beyond the picture now.

So as the title asks: do you know any lawyers that received an ENTER/ATAR of 81? Or do you know anyone that is currently completing a post-graduate equivalent law course with an ENTER/ATAR with 81?

To broaden my question and hopefully motivate me; do you know of anyone that received a similar ENTER/ATAR and are now currently averaging a 75%+ in their tertiary studies (UoM Arts)? I'm definitely aiming to pursue a post-graduate Juris Doctor from the University of Melbourne after the completion of my Arts degree but this requires an average of 75%+ throughout the whole degree as well as performing well on the LSAT (which I am confident - but not over-confident - about because I tend to do well on standardised tests of this sort).

I know literally dozens of kids at uni who ATARs that didn't represent their intellect at all, studied Arts for a year and are now doing/have got offers for Law at a whole bunch of universities, including Monash. I also know of a couple of people who had pretty mediocre marks throughout uni (high 60s) and are now doing post-graduate Law.

Seriously, you will be fine. 75% is not hard (particularly at UoM Arts tbh, I know people with lower ATARs than mine who are averaging like 95%) as long as you consistently work through the year.

[ninwa]

So as the title asks: do you know any lawyers that received an ENTER/ATAR of 81? Or do you know anyone that is currently completing a post-graduate equivalent law course with an ENTER/ATAR with 81?

Yes
These are all people I know personally

- A finished her arts degree and is now doing her LLB with a HD average. She'll finish later than some (26 atm) but fuck age, I would take her marks any day
- B didn't get a high enough ATAR for Monash or UoM (back when it did undergrad law), she went to Deakin and is now working on her PhD in animal law
- C got an ATAR of 89, did science, aced science, transferred into science/law and now has better marks than I could ever hope for, that bitch (I got a 99.6) (I'm allowed to call her a bitch because we've been friends for like 6 years)
- D was in a similar situation to B, also went to Deakin, now works for the ATO

Chin up

[ninwa]

I have no doubt that there are people who didn't graduate from high school who are now lawyers.

I see your lawyer and raise you a judge

Susan Kiefel, a current Justice of the High Court:

Kiefel was born in Cairns, Queensland in 1954. She briefly attended Sandgate District State High School, dropping out at the age of 15 upon completing Year 10.

Other current High Court justices who started in other degrees and only did law later (for whatever reason - I bet at least some of them didn't get in due to their marks):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Crennan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gummow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_Heydon

Not saying you'll become a high court judge, just showing you how high you can go and how insignificant this tiny stumbling block will be in the long run

[tram]

watch the tv show 'suits', 'nuff said Incidently the main character is also excellent at standardised tests OP (also it's a great show generally)

more on topic: everything that has been said before, atar helps with opening doors, but if your atar doesn't open the door for you, the door is still there, you just have to find another way to open it. I can say with almost certainty that my atar in and of it's self with never help me in a significant way again

[j-awad11]

Why are you worried about what other lawyers started with? There's no reason why you can't be the first lawyer that had an ATAR of 81