Specialist Maths or Biology?

[jmosh002]

Hey guys,
I do pretty well in both maths and biology - although i really want to do medicine (either monash or interstate - definitely undergrad).
The maths department at my school is very good ( 6 people above 40 in spec), and only (2 people above 40 in bio).
I am not sure what to do?
Which subject is more stressfull? Bigger workload, etc?

[BambooPanda]

I was in a similar predicament as you a few months ago. In the end I chose spesh for the following reasons:

-spesh is marked up 12 now... even at 35 it gots to about 47
-Monash offer a bio crash course for med students who didn't do bio

workload wise I think bio needs more time devoted to it since it isn't just memorising something but apply a new concept to a situation. If you understand something in spesh then all you need to do are practice questions.
I suggest you play to your strengths, if you are alot better in bio than in spesh then choose bio, but if you think your ability is about the same in both subjects then I think spesh is ideal. 30 in spesh=42, a 30 in bio=31ish
However you should choose subjects you enjoy because you'll be more motivated.
And to answer you question about stress, you'll find that anything you're behind in will be stressful, so stay ahead!

Hope that helps abit 

[Truck]

Think of it this way - spec scales up 12, give or take 1 probably for this years cohort.

I'm going to make the assumption you'd be going for a 40 raw as that's a general aim for a lot of people (and the premise still applies to higher scores).

To get that 40 scaled you'd need to either get a 28 in Spec or a 39 in Biology. I am going to go out on a limb and say to get a 28 in spec is probably going to be easier (if you can understand the concepts) then getting a 39 in Biology. A 39 in biology also is high A's/low A+'s, it's a LOT of work whereas a 28 in spec is like C's/C+'s (correct me if I'm wrong there). Thus if you're decent at Spec and you need a high ATAR for a course like Medicine, I think it's definitely worth doing Spec.

[nisha]

Think of it this way - spec scales up 12, give or take 1 probably for this years cohort.

I'm going to make the assumption you'd be going for a 40 raw as that's a general aim for a lot of people (and the premise still applies to higher scores).

To get that 40 raw you'd need to either get a 28 in Spec or a 39 in Biology. I am going to go out on a limb and say to get a 28 in spec is probably going to be easier (if you can understand the concepts) then getting a 39 in Biology. A 39 in biology also is high A's/low A+'s, it's a LOT of work whereas a 28 in spec is like C's/C+'s (correct me if I'm wrong there). Thus if you're decent at Spec and you need a high ATAR for a course like Medicine, I think it's definitely worth doing Spec.

Correction: To get a 40 scaled you would need a 28 in Spesh. I 28 in Spesh consists of C+'s to low B's as an average. You could take it as a side subject, one that you dont need to concentrate in that much. Also, Spesh helps you MASSIVELY IN METHODS, and makes methods class a breeze. If you are doing Physics, there is also some double-up there.

Definately take Spesh.

[Truck]

Think of it this way - spec scales up 12, give or take 1 probably for this years cohort.

I'm going to make the assumption you'd be going for a 40 raw as that's a general aim for a lot of people (and the premise still applies to higher scores).

To get that 40 raw you'd need to either get a 28 in Spec or a 39 in Biology. I am going to go out on a limb and say to get a 28 in spec is probably going to be easier (if you can understand the concepts) then getting a 39 in Biology. A 39 in biology also is high A's/low A+'s, it's a LOT of work whereas a 28 in spec is like C's/C+'s (correct me if I'm wrong there). Thus if you're decent at Spec and you need a high ATAR for a course like Medicine, I think it's definitely worth doing Spec.

Correction: To get a 40 scaled you would need a 28 in Spesh. I 28 in Spesh consists of C+'s to low B's as an average. You could take it as a side subject, one that you dont need to concentrate in that much. Also, Spesh helps you MASSIVELY IN METHODS, and makes methods class a breeze. If you are doing Physics, there is also some double-up there.

Definately take Spesh.

Oops yeah I did a stupid lol, 40 scaled =P.

[pi]

Go for spesh. Much easier to get a better raw score.

Although, I'm not sure if there are any interstate unis that require bio as a pre-req for med. You might want to check on that

[Special At Specialist]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

Specialist maths helps maths methods significantly. Literally about 70% of the methods course can be covered just by doing the specialist maths textbook. It's like you get 2 high scores when you only put effort into 1 subject.

Also, the scaling is just insane. I mean, I would consider specialist maths to be about as hard as chemistry (and I'm not just saying that because I'm good at maths), but chemistry is only +5 and specialist is +12. Anyone who is half-decent at maths should take advantage of this flaw in the scaling system. I know I will

But of course, if you dread maths, then biology would be best. But since you said that you will do pretty well in maths, I think you should go with that.

[nisha]

Also, the scaling is just insane. I mean, I would consider specialist maths to be about as hard as chemistry (and I'm not just saying that because I'm good at maths), but chemistry is only +5 and specialist is +12. Anyone who is half-decent at maths should take advantage of this flaw in the scaling system. I know I will

Correctiotn: (sorry its me eing pedantic) Chem scales up 3-4 to my knowledge, may be different for different people however.

IMO, Chem is harder. The examiners are stricter in the exams, the work is not only based on QUESTIONS like maths is, but the applications of it, and relating those applications to un-heard of situations. At home, I have atleast 2 textbooks, 6 studyguides and 50+ practise exams waiting to be done for Chemistry. I suspect, I might leave Spesh a little later...

[Phy124]

Also, the scaling is just insane. I mean, I would consider specialist maths to be about as hard as chemistry (and I'm not just saying that because I'm good at maths), but chemistry is only +5 and specialist is +12. Anyone who is half-decent at maths should take advantage of this flaw in the scaling system. I know I will

Correctiotn: (sorry its me eing pedantic) Chem scales up 3-4 to my knowledge, may be different for different people however.

IMO, Chem is harder. The examiners are stricter in the exams, the work is not only based on QUESTIONS like maths is, but the applications of it, and relating those applications to un-heard of situations. At home, I have atleast 2 textbooks, 6 studyguides and 50+ practise exams waiting to be done for Chemistry. I suspect, I might leave Spesh a little later...

Chem is usually +4 to +5 (a 30 will go +4, a 35 will go +5) unless you score very low or very high (20, 45, etc.). Maybe you are thinking of Physics which is +3?

Here is the scaling report for reference.

jmosh002, if you feel you are good at both I would advise you to do specialist maths, even more so if you happen to be doing methods (which you will be unless you did it last year)

[Truck]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

While we're arguing the same point, just feel I need to add something here (sorry for picking you out Special but this really bothers me, all my maths teachers love saying it as well)...

I don't understand how Specialist Maths will separate you from the crowd in *anything*. For every course VTAC doesn't look at anything but your ATAR or prerequisites, so doing it will literally have no bearing on your acceptance to the course. If the course requires a folio Spec is doing nothing for you there. Unless spec is a prerequisite (only Actuarial I think?) it gives you no advantages over anyone else, and it's not like you're going to put "did Specialist Maths" on your resume. Seriously, nobody cares - a 50 is a 50 whether or not it's in Spec or Further.

All the other reasons are valid, but the first just really isn't true.

[nisha]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

I don't understand how Specialist Maths will separate you from the crowd in *anything*. For every course VTAC doesn't look at anything but your ATAR or prerequisites, so doing it will literally have no bearing on your acceptance to the course. If the course requires a folio Spec is doing nothing for you there. Unless spec is a prerequisite (only Actuarial I think?) it gives you no advantages over anyone else, and it's not like you're going to put "did Specialist Maths" on your resume. Seriously, nobody cares - a 50 is a 50 whether or not it's in Spec or Further.

Spesh separates you from the crowd because, if you do Spesh you are more likely to get a very high SS (depends on how much effort you put in) and hence boost your ATAR, which of course, uni's look at. Therefore it gives you an advantage over everyone else because you ATAR will be higher-more likely to get into your course.
Also, obviously Spesh wont help you if you want to do arts (which I agree is based on folio) but as not many courses require Spesh as a prereq, then the reason people take it mostly is either because they like maths, or it the enormous scaling to which it can help your ATAR. I'm not sure which person would take Spesh when they want to do a folio based course either

P.S, When giving my resume to others for tutoring purposes, I WOULD put, "got a 50 in Spesh...." (if I got it).

[paulsterio]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

Just as a side note, just because you're good at maths and you seem to enjoy the subject and you're aiming for a 50, doesn't mean that Specialist Maths is any more respectable than Biology, Specialist Maths does not separate you from the crowd (unless you're applying to UQ where Spesh/Languages give you an OP bonus). I personally think someone who gets 50 in Biology would stand out more than a 25 in Specialist Maths.

Respectability is dependent on the performance, not the subject.

[Phy124]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

I don't understand how Specialist Maths will separate you from the crowd in *anything*. For every course VTAC doesn't look at anything but your ATAR or prerequisites, so doing it will literally have no bearing on your acceptance to the course. If the course requires a folio Spec is doing nothing for you there. Unless spec is a prerequisite (only Actuarial I think?) it gives you no advantages over anyone else, and it's not like you're going to put "did Specialist Maths" on your resume. Seriously, nobody cares - a 50 is a 50 whether or not it's in Spec or Further.

Spesh separates you from the crowd because, if you do Spesh you are more likely to get a very high SS (depends on how much effort you put in) and hence boost your ATAR, which of course, uni's look at. Therefore it gives you an advantage over everyone else because you ATAR will be higher-more likely to get into your course.
Also, obviously Spesh wont help you if you want to do arts (which I agree is based on folio) but as not many courses require Spesh as a prereq, then the reason people take it mostly is either because they like maths, or it the enormous scaling to which it can help your ATAR. I'm not sure which person would take Spesh when they want to do a folio based course either

P.S, When giving my resume to others for tutoring purposes, I WOULD put, "got a 50 in Spesh...." (if I got it).

I think what he was saying is that it won't separate you based solely on the subject, not how it will effect your ATAR i.e. they're not going to look at two people's credentials - let's say they received the same ATAR - and go well person 1 did specialist maths, whereas person 2 did biology so we better give an offer to person 1...

[paulsterio]

But the thing about this is that, I'd much rather put in I got a 50 in Biology than 30 in Spesh. It's the score, not the subject!

And also, there's the issue of relevance. For a course such as medicine, Biology is much more RELEVANT than Specialist Maths. Spesh helps with the scaling, yes, but until we get over the stigma of it being some holy grail, there will always be a little bias.

[Truck]

Specialist maths is considered a more "respectable" subject than biology in the sense that, although neither of them are required for most courses, specialist might just be the thing that separates you from the crowd.

I don't understand how Specialist Maths will separate you from the crowd in *anything*. For every course VTAC doesn't look at anything but your ATAR or prerequisites, so doing it will literally have no bearing on your acceptance to the course. If the course requires a folio Spec is doing nothing for you there. Unless spec is a prerequisite (only Actuarial I think?) it gives you no advantages over anyone else, and it's not like you're going to put "did Specialist Maths" on your resume. Seriously, nobody cares - a 50 is a 50 whether or not it's in Spec or Further.

Spesh separates you from the crowd because, if you do Spesh you are more likely to get a very high SS (depends on how much effort you put in) and hence boost your ATAR, which of course, uni's look at. Therefore it gives you an advantage over everyone else because you ATAR will be higher-more likely to get into your course.
Also, obviously Spesh wont help you if you want to do arts (which I agree is based on folio) but as not many courses require Spesh as a prereq, then the reason people take it mostly is either because they like maths, or it the enormous scaling to which it can help your ATAR. I'm not sure which person would take Spesh when they want to do a folio based course either

P.S, When giving my resume to others for tutoring purposes, I WOULD put, "got a 50 in Spesh...." (if I got it).

I think what he was saying is that it won't separate you based solely on the subject, not how it will effect your ATAR i.e. they're not going to look at two people's credentials - let's say they received the same ATAR - and go well person 1 did specialist maths, whereas person 2 did biology so we better give an offer to person 1...

Thanks for clarifying Phy, that's exactly what I meant. @Nisha I agree entirely on the scaling aspect, I'm just trying to say that merely doing Spec vs. doing another subject doesn't give you some sort of advantage. Universities only care about your ATAR + if you meet the prereqs, your subjects (apart from prereqs) play no part in course selection (the obvious exceptions being Medicine + art/performance courses, although I think we've agreed that Spec. doesn't mean much in either of those cases).

Also, of course if you were tutoring maths you'd put "got a 50 in spec...", just like if you were tutoring biology you'd put "got a 50 in biology" or if you were tutoring Philosophy you'd put "got a 50 in Philosophy". I was talking about applying for any general job either in uni or post-uni, don't see how tutoring is really relevant as you could be tutoring ANY subject and you'd advertise that subjects score to your students...