USyd Law

[Truck]

So I've been doing some research into Law degrees in Australia and from what I've uncovered so far it seems like the USyd L.L.B. is the best course in Australia and also quite good on an international scale. Unfortunately very tough to get into (99.7 was the 2011 clearly in), however...

Is the difference in the quality of the degrees substantial enough to warrant moving interstate instead of just doing a double degree of Commerce/Law at Monash? Also would going to USyd provide any significant advantages in terms of job seeking/post. grad opportunities when compared to either a L.L.B. from Monash or a JD from Melb? Thanks in advance .

[aes_999]

Well, you live in Melbourne, so there's no point going to USyd if you want to do law in Victoria. But if you want to practice law overseas, go to a university that has good international reputation, like Melbourne Uni. If not, might as well go L.L.B. Monash if possible, no need to do LSAT for Melbourne JD.

[paulsterio]

Monash, UoM, USyd, UNSW, ANU are all good universities for Law.

Unfortunately, in Law, alma mater does matter, so choose a good university. Any of them should be fine. If you don't want to go to Monash, consider ANU. Top quality course, lower ATAR because less people want to move to Canberra.

[Truck]

Monash, UoM, USyd, UNSW, ANU are all good universities for Law.

Unfortunately, in Law, alma mater does matter, so choose a good university. Any of them should be fine. If you don't want to go to Monash, consider ANU. Top quality course, lower ATAR because less people want to move to Canberra.

Atm I'm very keen on Monash only because J.D. at Melb requires me to go through the pains of an undergraduate degree + LSAT and I have heard Monash has a good rep. But like you said alma mater does matter, which is why I was wondering if USyd was a lot better.

@Aes_999 I could still practice law in Vic if I study in USyd can't I? I was under the impression that it would be fine.

edit: How would you guys rate the international reputation of Monash?

[Liuy]

Search the law forum for more threads regarding where to do law. Have a read of those.

Monash is still a relatively young, up and coming university and it's rep is bound to grow.

[aes_999]

Yeah u still can practice law if u go to USyd. But why go to USyd if you wanna practice law in Victoria? And uh, sadly Monash's international reputation is ok, but not as good when compared to the top GO8 unis, since Monash focuses more on practical things instead of research based stuff. That's why Monash is ranked lower in the world uni rankings

[Eriny]

The alma mater factor wouldn't be significant if you went to USyd and wanted to work in Melbourne, it would be far more significant though if you wanted (or at least were willing) to work in Sydney. Whether going interstate worthwhile would depend on what you really want to do afterward. If you want to be a lawyer in Melbourne, go for Monash. If you want to do research or something where international reputation matters, then I think it may be worth looking at other options too (that said, Monash holds it own in terms of prestige anyway).

[paulsterio]

Why not ANU?

[Mech]

Within the country, University of Sydney probably has the best undergraduate law degree. From my knowledge, which is relatively limited, UoM's JD is the most prestigious graduate law degree and allows you the added bonus to be more recognised if you wish to gallivant around overseas flaunting your legal skills/repertoire. If not, and you wish to be a confined to the landmass of Australia, your degree from any university will be fine and would be wonderfully prestigious if from the University of Sydney provided your marks are of a high calibre; nobody will give an iota of a dog turd about your alma mater if you have poor marks.

I am not quite sure why people are so pedantic about these things. Really, if you live in Melbourne and want a prestigious undergraduate law degree - Monash is right there. Competitive, renowned for offering a good course and has produced great legal minds. Also, UoM's model is not all bad; employers want you to have more diverse skills and some students want to spend a few years sussing out their degrees and interests before entering law. Furthermore, in terms of time, I believe it is five years to complete a LLB and it takes three years for your undergraduate and three years for you JD at Uom. Six years with potentially up to three majors in your undergraduate and then a law degree tacked on the end. That's not bad if you want to have a broad knowledge and so forth. The only down side is the LSAT and your maintaining a competitive GPA. If you don't, you can always just apply for graduate law elsewhere. Employers really just want people with skills and can bring what is needed to the table and show some adaptability/community skills.

Take a load off, relax and stop thinking you will be some hot shot lawyer purely based on your alma mater. It takes a lot of work to get to the Bar (if you want to be a barrister) and an even greater amount of time from being an underling to a solicitor/barrister before you have your own reputation. If you are pursuing law for status and what not, you will probably have your nose rubbed up the wrong way when you end up on a lower income than most and effectively shuffling papers as an overqualified paper boy. If you really want it, you have to work for it.

[Truck]

Why not ANU?

Definitely considering it, however tbh I don't really want to live in Canberra (I know it's a shallow reason but seriously, I think living there would suck ).

Within the country, University of Sydney probably has the best undergraduate law degree. From my knowledge, which is relatively limited, UoM's JD is the most prestigious graduate law degree and allows you the added bonus to be more recognised if you wish to gallivant around overseas flaunting your legal skills/repertoire. If not, and you wish to be a confined to the landmass of Australia, your degree from any university will be fine and would be wonderfully prestigious if from the University of Sydney provided your marks are of a high calibre; nobody will give an iota of a dog turd about your alma mater if you have poor marks.

I am not quite sure why people are so pedantic about these things. Really, if you live in Melbourne and want a prestigious undergraduate law degree - Monash is right there. Competitive, renowned for offering a good course and has produced great legal minds. Also, UoM's model is not all bad; employers want you to have more diverse skills and some students want to spend a few years sussing out their degrees and interests before entering law. Furthermore, in terms of time, I believe it is five years to complete a LLB and it takes three years for your undergraduate and three years for you JD at Uom. Six years with potentially up to three majors in your undergraduate and then a law degree tacked on the end. That's not bad if you want to have a broad knowledge and so forth. The only down side is the LSAT and your maintaining a competitive GPA. If you don't, you can always just apply for graduate law elsewhere. Employers really just want people with skills and can bring what is needed to the table and show some adaptability/community skills.

Take a load off, relax and stop thinking you will be some hot shot lawyer purely based on your alma mater. It takes a lot of work to get to the Bar (if you want to be a barrister) and an even greater amount of time from being an underling to a solicitor/barrister before you have your own reputation. If you are pursuing law for status and what not, you will probably have your nose rubbed up the wrong way when you end up on a lower income than most and effectively shuffling papers as an overqualified paper boy. If you really want it, you have to work for it.

Cheers for that. I understand the degree would entail hard work regardless where I study, I think that maintaining a high GPA is a given in almost any course if you want a good job, whether it be Commerce, Law or Science. The reality is that I've wanted to be a lawyer for a long time now and have weighed up a lot of other professions, so I suppose I'm being pedantic because I want to make sure I make the best decision about which university to go to so I don't regret it in the future. Honestly, the main reasons I created this thread are:

a) I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to work internationally in Law (at least for a short period in time), although I think eventually I'd want to settle down and live in Australia, thus I'm not entirely sure about how "viable" it is to obtain a job internationally with Monash as an alma mater.
b) *Wasn't* sure whether or not it would provide a substantial difference to study in USyd vs Monash/Melb.

However, based on the responses and some more general research, it seems like I'm going to rule out USyd and start to really think about the benefits of a BCom/L.L.B. at Monash vs. BComm at Melbourne followed by a J.D.. Still leaning towards the Monash option but Melbourne is becoming increasingly appealing. Thanks for the post(s), and if any of you have any further information relevant to my decision it'd be appreciated.

[paulsterio]

When you say overseas, where do you intend to work?

[Truck]

When you say overseas, where do you intend to work?

Ideally the U.S.A., but from all the research I've done the country is saturated with lawyers and it's much more competitive to get a job there then here. I also wouldn't rule out the U.K., but it'd have to be between those two.

[Mech]

Cheers for that. I understand the degree would entail hard work regardless where I study, I think that maintaining a high GPA is a given in almost any course if you want a good job, whether it be Commerce, Law or Science. The reality is that I've wanted to be a lawyer for a long time now and have weighed up a lot of other professions, so I suppose I'm being pedantic because I want to make sure I make the best decision about which university to go to so I don't regret it in the future. Honestly, the main reasons I created this thread are:

I understand completely. Sorry to be a hard-ass on you, I am just very taken back by how some people actually do think their university alone will sell them as a professional in the legal field; it has a lot to do with your scores and your attitude as well. Many people who aspire to be barristers, wont have the right personality to sit there and pummel someone with words on a stand. A lot wont have the moxie to make a case for someone they are doubtful of. All the pedantry aside over your alma mater, you need to think about the ethical things involved with being a barrister/solicitor/whatever. The same can be said for doctors and what not as well. You need to have a personality conducive to the profession. Just keep that in mind.

a) I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to work internationally in Law (at least for a short period in time), although I think eventually I'd want to settle down and live in Australia, thus I'm not entirely sure about how "viable" it is to obtain a job internationally with Monash as an alma mater.
b) *Wasn't* sure whether or not it would provide a substantial difference to study in USyd vs Monash/Melb.

a) I do not see why it would not be viable. You may not be as well off in relation to graduate lawyers - which most lawyers overseas are - despite whatever degree you do in Australia at an undergraduate level (including Uni. of Syd.). Most lawyers overseas have undergraduate then grad law under their belts. Wider skill sets than just a straight out law degree (hence why I would recommend you do a double degree if you want to do undergraduate law).

b)I think I sort of made that clear (as did many others). No point beating a dead horse.

However, based on the responses and some more general research, it seems like I'm going to rule out USyd and start to really think about the benefits of a BCom/L.L.B. at Monash vs. BComm at Melbourne followed by a J.D.. Still leaning towards the Monash option but Melbourne is becoming increasingly appealing. Thanks for the post(s), and if any of you have any further information relevant to my decision it'd be appreciated.

No problem. I would really consider Monash and UoM. They offer quality courses depending on whether you want a local or international focus. Suss that out during the year and just keep an eye out on all opportunities on the table. At the end of the day, it is really just your choice about what suits you and what you want to achieve in your life. I think moving state purely for a degree should be considered thoroughly; it is a big sea change and it might even be frivolous if you have more local options with similar offerings.

Good luck

[paulsterio]

There was a journal article written about how there's a massive saturation of lawyers in the US. I'll link you in the morning when I google it

But basically I think it'll be tough getting a job in the US with any Australian degree. You have more of a chance with the UK however. I think the best pathway would be to stick with Monash's LLB. There really is no reason to move to Sydney. You have to factor in other issues such as accommodation as well!

I also think there might be a guaranteed entry pathway into UoM's JD. If you qualify for guaranteed entry I'd say that UoM would be a great choice too!

[appianway]

Food for thought: in NSW you have to do a combined law degree, and commerce/law at USyd is regarded as weaker than commerce/law at UNSW because of the commerce faculty.