Tasmanian smoking ban?

[mark_alec]

My current viewpoint on illicit drugs continuing to be illegal and alcohol being legal stems from the fact that I believe the negative consequences on health and society of hard drugs is far, far worse than that of alcohol.

This is not true. It is through historical quirks that alcohol is legal (after all, humankind has consumed it almost since the beginning of agriculture) and tobacco is [still] legal whilst other drugs such as opium, marijuana, ecstasy and LSD are illegal.

The judgement of legal/illegal was *never* based on minimising harm and costs to the individual or society (instead, often laws that were established for racist reasons).

[Tomw2]

I would like to have a look at said reports.

They're freely available and highly recommended.

Also, keep in mind that this is the claim that you'd have to back up: "Increasing price is universally associated with reduced uptake, decreased consumption and increased quitting. It is likely the most significant single factor implicated in the massive decrease of smoking uptake and consumption since the 1990s."

Look hard enough and I'm sure you'll find an exception,  so "universally" was a poor word choice. How about the overwhelming majority then?

Er, who did? Taxes should be part of it, not all of the response.

Well, you did omit the other factors while making bold claims championing taxes.

This is a strawman. So because I did not cite an exhaustive list of all the other factors associated with tobacco consumption, I am guilty of "championing" taxes at the exclusion of all other strategies...?

There is a myth perpetuated in discourse like these, that taxes are ineffective and purely a corrupt governmental revenue stream. In terms of single policies the evidence suggests that taxation is the most significant single factor. Many other factors contribute, but on their own, none have a cost-benefit ratio as favourable as taxation. Like any human problem, the response should be multifaceted of course.



http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i62.full - for starters.

Chaloupka F and Warner K. The economics of smoking, in The handbook of health economics, Newhouse J and Cuyler A, Editors, New York: Elsevier Science B. V, 2001; 1539-627. Available from: http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookdescription.cws_home/525412/description#description

Evans WN and Huang LX. Cigarette taxes and teen smoking: new evidence from panels of repeated cross-sections. Department of Economics Working Paper: University of Maryland, 1998.

Tauras J and Chaloupka F. Determinants of smoking cessation: an analysis of young adult men and women. Working paper no. 7262. Cambridge MA: National Bureau of Economic Research, 1999. Available from: http://www.nber.org/papers/

Ross H and Chaloupka F. The effect of cigarette prices on youth smoking. Health Econ 2003;12:217-30. Available from: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/94516135/ABSTRACT

Tauras J. Public policy and smoking cessation among young adults in the United States. Health Policy 2004;68:321-32. Available from: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V8X-4BBMWP9-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F30%2F2004&_rdoc=8&_fmt=summary&_orig=browse&_srch=doc-info(%23toc%235882%232004%23999319996%23498981%23FLA%23display%23Volume)&_cdi=5882&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=19&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=81cdb953c1ae5c57975b2180c088bdaa

[Mao]

To all the people crying 'i am a citizen i have rights etc.' yeah alright, get over yourselves. A couple of the toxic components in cigarettes are formaldehyde and lead. If I went to a restuarant and started lacing people's food with formaldehyde and lead I'd probably be arrested for attempted murder via food poisoning. So why should someone be allowed to blow that same sh*t right in your face, the logic bewilders me. I would support any law that made smoking only legal on private property (e.g. your home or at house parties). But even then there will be mothers who smoke and damage their baby's health in utero (I feel absolutely disgusted at this revolting behaviour whenever I see it happen), as well as parents from lower-income areas smoking all day around their kids who don't have any say in the matter, etc. Does a fetus in the womb have a say in whether or not their carrier floods their body with toxins from smoking? Does a 5 year old child have the mental or physical capacity to convince his stressed out parent to stop smoking inside the house?

Before you ask others to get over themselves, you need to get over yourself. You do not have the privilege to make my decisions for me, and so long as I do what I do without forcing harm upon others (they have a choice to stay near me), your opinion can get fucked. The examples you gave are examples of seriously stupid decision making, and if you want to make laws to force these people live the life you want them to live, then good luck to you and your moral high horse.

[alexa94]

your opinion can get fucked.

you seriously have issues man

and yeah the examples i gave are of stupid decision making but guess what, there are stupid people who make stupid decisions that inflict harm upon others

i see you're a mod, could you please ban me from these forums so i stop wasting my time replying to threads like these?

[thushan]

your opinion can get fucked.

you seriously have issues man

and yeah the examples i gave are of stupid decision making but guess what, there are stupid people who make stupid decisions that inflict harm upon others

i see you're a mod, could you please ban me from these forums so i stop wasting my time replying to threads like these?

Guys let's calm down, please lets not get too personal.

[Truck]

To all the people crying 'i am a citizen i have rights etc.' yeah alright, get over yourselves. A couple of the toxic components in cigarettes are formaldehyde and lead. If I went to a restuarant and started lacing people's food with formaldehyde and lead I'd probably be arrested for attempted murder via food poisoning. So why should someone be allowed to blow that same sh*t right in your face, the logic bewilders me. I would support any law that made smoking only legal on private property (e.g. your home or at house parties). But even then there will be mothers who smoke and damage their baby's health in utero (I feel absolutely disgusted at this revolting behaviour whenever I see it happen), as well as parents from lower-income areas smoking all day around their kids who don't have any say in the matter, etc. Does a fetus in the womb have a say in whether or not their carrier floods their body with toxins from smoking? Does a 5 year old child have the mental or physical capacity to convince his stressed out parent to stop smoking inside the house?

Before you ask others to get over themselves, you need to get over yourself. You do not have the privilege to make my decisions for me, and so long as I do what I do without forcing harm upon others (they have a choice to stay near me), your opinion can get fucked. The examples you gave are examples of seriously stupid decision making, and if you want to make laws to force these people live the life you want them to live, then good luck to you and your moral high horse.

You are a hypocrite. I wish I was an admin so I could take this post and make a thread called "how not to reply in this forum" .

[Soul_Khan]

Of course people are gonna get offended when alexa94 says:

my other solution is to provide free cigarettes to anyone who wants them so that the stupid people will kill themselves faster

..inb4 thread lock

[ninwa]

i see you're a mod, could you please ban me from these forums so i stop wasting my time replying to threads like these?

I can customise your profile so that you can only see certain subforums if you like

[alexa94]

Of course people are gonna get offend when alexa94 says

my other solution is to provide free cigarettes to anyone who wants them so that the stupid people will kill themselves faster

..inb4 thread lock

Ok

i see you're a mod, could you please ban me from these forums so i stop wasting my time replying to threads like these?

I can customise your profile so that you can only see certain subforums if you like

Haha nah it's all good, maybe I should just exercise a bit of self-control

[enwiabe]

To all the people crying 'i am a citizen i have rights etc.' yeah alright, get over yourselves. A couple of the toxic components in cigarettes are formaldehyde and lead. If I went to a restuarant and started lacing people's food with formaldehyde and lead I'd probably be arrested for attempted murder via food poisoning. So why should someone be allowed to blow that same sh*t right in your face, the logic bewilders me. I would support any law that made smoking only legal on private property (e.g. your home or at house parties). But even then there will be mothers who smoke and damage their baby's health in utero (I feel absolutely disgusted at this revolting behaviour whenever I see it happen), as well as parents from lower-income areas smoking all day around their kids who don't have any say in the matter, etc. Does a fetus in the womb have a say in whether or not their carrier floods their body with toxins from smoking? Does a 5 year old child have the mental or physical capacity to convince his stressed out parent to stop smoking inside the house?

Before you ask others to get over themselves, you need to get over yourself. You do not have the privilege to make my decisions for me, and so long as I do what I do without forcing harm upon others (they have a choice to stay near me), your opinion can get fucked. The examples you gave are examples of seriously stupid decision making, and if you want to make laws to force these people live the life you want them to live, then good luck to you and your moral high horse.

You are a hypocrite. I wish I was an admin so I could take this post and make a thread called "how not to reply in this forum" .

He's a hypocrite for taking offense to someone who literally hoped he would die quickly?

Tell me where he actually said anything hypocritical? He didn't insult alexa. He said his opinion can get fucked.

I am an admin, and I can tell you right now that was a perfectly civil reply to someone who just wished death upon them.

[alexa94]

To all the people crying 'i am a citizen i have rights etc.' yeah alright, get over yourselves. A couple of the toxic components in cigarettes are formaldehyde and lead. If I went to a restuarant and started lacing people's food with formaldehyde and lead I'd probably be arrested for attempted murder via food poisoning. So why should someone be allowed to blow that same sh*t right in your face, the logic bewilders me. I would support any law that made smoking only legal on private property (e.g. your home or at house parties). But even then there will be mothers who smoke and damage their baby's health in utero (I feel absolutely disgusted at this revolting behaviour whenever I see it happen), as well as parents from lower-income areas smoking all day around their kids who don't have any say in the matter, etc. Does a fetus in the womb have a say in whether or not their carrier floods their body with toxins from smoking? Does a 5 year old child have the mental or physical capacity to convince his stressed out parent to stop smoking inside the house?

Before you ask others to get over themselves, you need to get over yourself. You do not have the privilege to make my decisions for me, and so long as I do what I do without forcing harm upon others (they have a choice to stay near me), your opinion can get fucked. The examples you gave are examples of seriously stupid decision making, and if you want to make laws to force these people live the life you want them to live, then good luck to you and your moral high horse.

You are a hypocrite. I wish I was an admin so I could take this post and make a thread called "how not to reply in this forum" .

He's a hypocrite for taking offense to someone who literally hoped he would die quickly?

Tell me where he actually said anything hypocritical? He didn't insult alexa. He said his opinion can get fucked.

I am an admin, and I can tell you right now that was a perfectly civil reply to someone who just wished death upon them.

Firstly I was not being serious when I said that, maybe when I was typing it at 2 am in the morning I thought it was obvious that it was not meant to be taken literally, but clearly some people have not seen it that way.

Secondly, did I say something along the lines of 'I wish .... would die?' No, I basically insinuated that smoking more will kill you faster, which is why it is stupid to smoke

[enwiabe]

Following on from "second" where you acknowledge that your plan would lead to smokers dying more quickly. You then said you wanted to see that implemented as a solution. You were actively wishing for Mao's speedy death.

Now you'll try and backtrack and say "I didn't mean it literally LOLZ". The sentiment was there. You'd rather smokers simply die. If you were truly sorry for your choice of words, you'd actually apologise for them instead of attempting to weasel out of any sort of responsibility for being so callous as to wish death on people.

And really, it's not bad enough that they're addicted to something that's killing them slowly anyway, you're now trying to kick them while they're down, too? If you're so angry about tobacco, you should get angry at tobacco companies for producing it, or government for not having the balls to legislate it. But you'd rather blame the victims, obviously. How cowardly. How disgusting. I don't know how you can look anyone in the face, and say that, and feel like you are a moral person to do so.

[alexa94]

Following on from "second" where you acknowledge that your plan would lead to smokers dying more quickly. You then said you wanted to see that implemented as a solution. You were actively wishing for Mao's speedy death.

Now you'll try and backtrack and say "I didn't mean it literally LOLZ". The sentiment was there. You'd rather smokers simply die. If you were truly sorry for your choice of words, you'd actually apologise for them instead of attempting to weasel out of any sort of responsibility for being so callous as to wish death on people.

And really, it's not bad enough that they're addicted to something that's killing them slowly anyway, you're now trying to kick them while they're down, too? If you're so angry about tobacco, you should get angry at tobacco companies for producing it, or government for not having the balls to legislate it. But you'd rather blame the victims, obviously. How cowardly. How disgusting. I don't know how you can look anyone in the face, and say that, and feel like you are a moral person to do so.

wow, all i can say is get a life - you graduated 5 years ago, and you're sitting on your computer trying to convince an 18 year old who you don't even know that they're a bad person, by analysing their thought process as they wrote a rhetorical sentence. i won't post here again, i know i won't be missed

[Thu Thu Train]

Following on from "second" where you acknowledge that your plan would lead to smokers dying more quickly. You then said you wanted to see that implemented as a solution. You were actively wishing for Mao's speedy death.

Now you'll try and backtrack and say "I didn't mean it literally LOLZ". The sentiment was there. You'd rather smokers simply die. If you were truly sorry for your choice of words, you'd actually apologise for them instead of attempting to weasel out of any sort of responsibility for being so callous as to wish death on people.

And really, it's not bad enough that they're addicted to something that's killing them slowly anyway, you're now trying to kick them while they're down, too? If you're so angry about tobacco, you should get angry at tobacco companies for producing it, or government for not having the balls to legislate it. But you'd rather blame the victims, obviously. How cowardly. How disgusting. I don't know how you can look anyone in the face, and say that, and feel like you are a moral person to do so.

wow, all i can say is get a life - you graduated 5 years ago, and you're sitting on your computer trying to convince an 18 year old who you don't even know that they're a bad person, by analysing their thought process as they wrote a rhetorical sentence. i won't post here again, i know i won't be missed

Oh suck it up princess. You're 18 years old and you cant take criticism? Have fun in the real world.

[Starlight]

But you'd rather blame the victims.

As in blame the smokers?

I guess at the end of the day I have no problems with others smoking, so long as they are RESPONSIBLE and don't create a cloud of second hand smoke, problem is I have rarely seen this happen.