Lowering Blood Alcohol Limit to 0.02

[nisha]

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-swedens-finest-contribution-to-road-safety-is-not-the-volvo-20120915-25z2t.html

[Mao]

Yet another example of the state trying to manage people like primary school kids. In this case, those who drink responsibly are being punished for those who abuse the system. And I guess if one of us don't follow the rules, then none of us can have it.

All they need to do is add jail time to drink driving. Not one or two days, make it one or two weeks.

[Soul_Khan]

inb4 debate

[brenden]

All they need to do is add jail time to drink driving. Not one or two days, make it one or two weeks.

Could our prison system even support that?
I think lowering it is pointless. I don't give a shit what they do either way, results will be the same for .02/.05. As for anything alcohol related I think most of the solution lies in education and attitude reform, as said above. Would people even consider .02 a legitimate law? I conduct myself based on what I think is morally okay as opposed to what the law says (J-Walking, anyone?) If I even drank, or even had a license, I think I'd probably be prone to be like "I'd probably blow .03 on a breath-test... Sweet, driving time."

[Special At Specialist]

In the US, the legal BAC limit is 0.08 and that seems to work fine with them. I'm not too fussed with having a 0.05 BAC limit instead of 0.08, but a 0.02 just seems ridiculous.

I think the BAC affects all people the same. For example, it might take a lightweight 1 glass of wine to reach 0.05 and a heavy person 4 glasses to reach 0.05, but once they reach it, they will both be equally impaired.

The problem with reducing it below 0.05 is that it's very impractical. For example, if you go to a restaurant and have one glass of wine, that might put you to 0.021. Do you realise deserve a DUI for that? Also, what if you have a big night and then wake up the next day, feeling pretty sober but really having a BAC of 0.021? Once you get to small amounts like that, it's hard to even know that you're impaired. When you are actually drunk, you can easily feel it and know that you are drunk, but not on such small amounts like that.

Also, in Victoria, the majority of alcohol-related fatal crashes come from people who have exceeded the 0.05 BAC, not from people in the 0.02 to 0.05 range.

If they really want to reduce the road toll, then they should fix all of the potholes on the road so that people aren't tempted to swerve all over the place just to save their tyres from popping.

lolwut? So potholes have a bigger impact on the road toll than alcohol?

I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that alcohol is safe in small amounts (<0.05 BAC) but dangerous in large amounts (>0.05 BAC). Most of the road toll is from people either on 0 BAC or from people greater than 0.05 BAC. Hardly any of it comes from people in the 0.02 to 0.05 range, so rather than making a law like this which only causes a nuisance to the average driver, why not do something beneficial for road users, such as removing potholes on the road? Potholes can (and very often do) pop tyres, which I think is a bigger issue than someone who is so slightly drunk that you can't even tell.

[Russ]

For example, if you go to a restaurant and have one glass of wine, that might put you to 0.021. Do you realise deserve a DUI for that?

Do you really deserve one for .051?

[spectroscopy]

0.05 is already a safe limit, thats why its set where it is, people who get pulled over for swerving etc. are over 0.05, the only thing they should change is the penalties, if you get jail time for being over 0.05 just watch the accident rates drop

[Special At Specialist]

For example, if you go to a restaurant and have one glass of wine, that might put you to 0.021. Do you realise deserve a DUI for that?

Do you really deserve one for .051?

Yes. You can't accidentally go over 0.05 like you can with 0.02. Anything over 0.05 you can usually feel that you are tipsy and hence you know not to drive. At 0.021, sometimes you think you're completely sober when you're not.

0.05 is already a safe limit, thats why its set where it is, people who get pulled over for swerving etc. are over 0.05, the only thing they should change is the penalties, if you get jail time for being over 0.05 just watch the accident rates drop

Unfortunately, I don't think that this will stop people. The punishment for drink driving is already quite severe - worse than any other traffic offence. For example, someone caught with a 0.051 BAC gets a worse penalty than someone caught driving 200km/h in a school zone. I think that rather than making the punishments worse and worse, they should make more programs to educate youth about drink driving and also add more booze buses to the road, especially late at night on Fridays and Saturdays.

[nacho]

Unfortunately, I don't think that this will stop people. The punishment for drink driving is already quite severe - worse than any other traffic offence. For example, someone caught with a 0.051 BAC gets a worse penalty than someone caught driving 200km/h in a school zone.

this is not true

[pi]

The penalty for driving 200km/h in a school zone would probably be an accident -> death.

[brenden]

Yeah that's just blatantly wrong. Being 25ks over te speed limit is an immediate loss of license. 200ks in a school zone would probably get you time, though I'm not sure on this. Someone at .051 would get to wait 30 minutes and take another test, if they were still over they would cop a fine. Possibly demerits. Will check at home.

[Russ]

Yes. You can't accidentally go over 0.05 like you can with 0.02. Anything over 0.05 you can usually feel that you are tipsy and hence you know not to drive. At 0.021, sometimes you think you're completely sober when you're not.

That's stupid. You can't accidentally go over either, you have to make the decision to drink. Having a glass of wine with dinner does not "accidentally" put you over the limit.
A BAC of .02 has some symptoms that the person will notice, just as people at >.05 can sometimes not feel tipsy.

For example, someone caught with a 0.051 BAC gets a worse penalty than someone caught driving 200km/h in a school zone.

.051 BAC is 10 demerit points and a $420 fine, assuming you're not on a restricted license

200kmph in a school zone will probably be license cancellation and a court appearance for something like reckless endangerment + minimum $700 fine

[Special At Specialist]

Yeah that's just blatantly wrong. Being 25ks over te speed limit is an immediate loss of license. 200ks in a school zone would probably get you time, though I'm not sure on this. Someone at .051 would get to wait 30 minutes and take another test, if they were still over they would cop a fine. Possibly demerits. Will check at home.

No it's not... I know someone who was caught 29k's over the limit on his red P plates and only got a 1 month licence suspension starting the month after the month which he was caught (as well as 4 demerit points and roughly a $380 fine). If that's how they treat red P platers, then I would only assume that full licensed drivers get an even lighter sentence.
And here are the facts:
Driving 45+ km/h over the limit and/or hoon driving = 8 demerit points.
Drink driving = 10 demerit points.

Also, drink driving costs a lot more than you think. Once you get a DUI, your insurance rates will go up to about 4 times what they were previously, you will get a huge licence suspension and you have to pay to install a breathalyser into your car. You can easily end up spending $10,000 more on insurance as a result of your DUI than you would usually. Compare that to the $700 or whatever fine for hoon driving and we can see which has harsher penalties.
Unless you either crash or are a repeat offender, then you probably aren't going to get a mandatory court appearance letter for speeding. Even if you do, having a DUI goes on your record too I believe, so it's not like you get to escape court from drink driving instead.

As for the waiting thing, you're right. They usually make you wait 20 minutes, so you can hope that your BAC drops a small amount by then (perhaps like a 0.005 drop). But even so, it's still risky.

It is much more likely that by 0.05, you will realise that you are tipsy than at 0.02. At least 0.02 is more reasonable than 0, since things like cough medicine or mouth-wash can show up on the breathalyser, but even so, I think that it is an unnecessary reduction. There was nothing wrong with the 0.05 system imo.

Yes. You can't accidentally go over 0.05 like you can with 0.02. Anything over 0.05 you can usually feel that you are tipsy and hence you know not to drive. At 0.021, sometimes you think you're completely sober when you're not.

That's stupid. You can't accidentally go over either, you have to make the decision to drink. Having a glass of wine with dinner does not "accidentally" put you over the limit.
A BAC of .02 has some symptoms that the person will notice, just as people at >.05 can sometimes not feel tipsy.

I highly doubt anyone could be at 0.05 and not realise that they are tipsy. It could easily happen at 0.02, though. Also, what if someone spikes your drink when you are trying to drink non-alcoholic stuff? Is it still your decision to drink then?

[Russ]

Driving 45+ km/h over the limit and/or hoon driving = 8 demerit points.
Drink driving = 10 demerit points.

Did you see the asterisk that says you can have you license automatically cancelled in certain circumstances related to excessive speeding, which is a pretty reasonable term for 200kmph in a school zone.

Also, drink driving costs a lot more than you think. Once you get a DUI, your insurance rates will go up to about 4 times what they were previously, you will get a huge licence suspension and you have to pay to install a breathalyser into your car. You can easily end up spending $10,000 more on insurance as a result of your DUI than you would usually. Compare that to the $700 or whatever fine for hoon driving and we can see which has harsher penalties.

Irrelevant, that's not a penalty. If you look at the actual legal penalties that I posted above, your example was not true. The fine alone is nearly twice as much for the speeding.

I highly doubt anyone could be at 0.05 and not realise that they are tipsy. It could easily happen at 0.02, though. Also, what if someone spikes your drink when you are trying to drink non-alcoholic stuff? Is it still your decision to drink then?

Are you seriously saying that because of the risk of drink spiking, we shouldn't lower the legal driving limit...
You can get a BAC of .05 from 3 standard drinks, which is only a couple of beers.

I will point out again that if you make the decision to drink you cannot consider it "accidental" when you're 'just' over the limit

[slothpomba]

It isn't all that easy to work out though. I doubt there are tonnes of people walking around knowing the formula.

If its out of regular bottles or cans, they've got it printed on the side. Nice and easy. We all know (well we should anyway) at a standard shot of something @ ~40% is also a standard drink. Most spirits tend to be around there so thats fine again.

I think it gets kind of iffy with beer though. You can have everything from the lighter end at 2-3% up to european beers at like 6%. Unless you have a photographic memory of the alcohol content of every beer, it can be fairly easy to be "accidentally" over.  Unless you have a menu like this (http://www.europeanbiercafe.com.au/#/biers/4542408798 - click the pdf thingy). I was surprised myself to find out that two pints of 5% beer will make you 0.07 (http://www.rupissed.com/ <- calculator).

All that said though, if you are driving, you shouldn't be trying to just barely stay under the limit, you should be well below it.