Discussion of a TABOO topic.

[Felicity Wishes]

Not really a taboo topic, but I recall a topic posted by a certain AN member a year or so ago that was quite funny...

"What a girl wants?" or something?

Interesting discussion on "Guys, girls and relationships: What Mars and Venus looks for in a relationship" is in order.

That would be a good one!

[Russ]

I was being tongue-in-cheek Thomas.

On that note - just one post here - what kind of benefits does CAM give? If we are talking direct biomedical evidence-based intervention, then i'd say nothing (well...depends on the CAM. i'm thinking mainly homeopathy). Only too happy to be corrected though.

My point is more that CAM is the whipping boy for no reason other than hurr CAM. Kinda like psychiatrists aren't real doctors. It's funny when it's with people you know, but not in general parlance (like a staff member telling us the bottom students would be psychiatrists lol)

CAM extends so far beyond the spectrum of homeopathy. Homeopathy is mostly rubbish, the main benefit derived from it is holistic, since in an age of 10 minute GP visits spending 60 minutes discussing your life etc. is absolutely going to be beneficial.

CAM encompasses a lot of stuff. Naturopathy is probably the one I care about the most and there are plenty of treatments supported by cochrane reviews etc. (http://www.imbi.uni-freiburg.de/OJS/cca/index.php?journal=cca&page=article&op=view&path[]=2706) that indicate that we should be working dramatically on inclusive therapy. When you compare drug effects to CAM effects, drugs will always win since they're high dose, acute impact things. But unnecessarily taking drugs every day for long periods of time is a terrible idea and incorporating some of the therapies out there into daily life would probably have massive benefits in terms of protection and prophylaxis. It might also tempt big pharma into being slightly less unethical (never happening) if they see the changes being made.

The major problems are the CAM industry getting a bad name from some of their dubious practitioners and doctors being historically reluctant to give anybody else power in the healthcare field. It would be really nice if we could overcome it but I'm unfortunately not optimistic.

[thushan]

Fair enough. I'll just change that tongueincheek post to reflect a better position.

[CaiTheHuman]

Multiculturalism : Have the recent anti-Islamic film protests and Muslims protesting outside an Atheism Conference, chanting "Atheism is a cancer and Islam is the cure" depict how Multiculturalism has started to fail or are slight regression being distorted by our politicians.

In my opinion, extreme forms of Islam(such as Salafists) don't belong in Australian Society and are not compatible with our values. Calling for the be-headings and death to all those who insult Islam and the Prophet. Well I don't really see it as very peaceful, its very contradictory to the message of peace they are trying to convey. I see it as a form of mental illness, otherwise known as schizophrenia.

[thushan]

Mmm. It's not the same people calling for beheadings and those who are calling for peace though. I wouldn't call it schizophrenia though, simply brainwashing (purely directed at the extremists).

[paulsterio]

I agree, there should be certain societal values that everyone should adhere to, I love multiculturalism, but I don't think any culture which supports killing and violence as well as antiquated values should be appreciated. They need to change and start to accept modern values.

[CaiTheHuman]

Mmm. It's not the same people calling for beheadings and those who are calling for peace though. I wouldn't call it schizophrenia though, simply brainwashing (purely directed at the extremists).

It's misconstruing the message of a majority, even though the peaceful protests in Pakistan still ended up with people dead. It is not society fault that they haven't integrated either, articles blaming society is just justifying their actions. These extremists refuse to become engaged with Australian Society, preferring to stay in the fringes of their community. If they want to start a Jihad , than they should go back to a state where it is accepted practice and is actually condoned by society. The Islamic World is basically telling us to break our own laws, protections and societal landscape just over an awful film about a Muhammed. We are entitled to free speech(not completely in Australia) and are allowed to say whatever we want. You never see Jewish People ransacking Iranian Embassies over offensive cartoons and exhortations by Iman's calling for the death of Jews .

[thushan]

If they want to start a war and kill citizens, they will feel the full force of the law.

The Islamic world is NOT telling us to do this, it's only a group of extremists who purport themselves as representing the Islamic World.

[CaiTheHuman]

If they want to start a war and kill citizens, they will feel the full force of the law.

The Islamic world is NOT telling us to do this, it's only a group of extremists who purport themselves as representing the Islamic World.

So, the preacher who came from overseas and held a conference on the Islamic Jihad and how we all should start a holy war was still allowed his visa. Even though he was preaching hate and  violence while a Dutch MP is denied his Visa when he was only going to preach hate. Double standards I say.

By Protesting so vociferously and violently. They are in a way(these extremists) sending us a message, you practice your freedom speech and we shall kill you. It is mainly the extremists that tick me off , I really dislike their conduct and in a way, it may skew my judgement of Islam. I know it is not representative of the whole community. However in an indirect form, they are telling us to be careful about what we say. For the fear of retribution. It's gotten to the point where news offices in France, are getting fire-bombed for exercising their right to free speech. People are getting assassinated and killed all in the name of Islam and Allah by these Extremists. Muhammed would turn in his grave knowing such destructive unholy acts were happening all in his name.

However I reiterate that I am not attacking the wider Islamic Community, only the minority which are making it increasingly harder for mum slims in general to practice their faith. (well not harder but increasing tensions between Muslim Community and Australian Society).

[thushan]

"So, the preacher who came from overseas and held a conference on the Islamic Jihad and how we all should start a holy war was still allowed his visa. Even though he was preaching hate and  violence while a Dutch MP is denied his Visa when he was only going to preach hate. Double standards I say."

Is this actually true? There isn't more to the story? If this is the case, then I disagree with this act. The preacher should not have been allowed the visa if this is the whole story.

[paulsterio]

This is a very difficult and intertwined issue. It can't be denied that Islam is a religion of violence and aggression, Dan knows more about this than I do because I haven't researched Islam in as much detail as he has. But one does not have to look far to see the effects of Islam. Do we see any area in the world where there is as much conflict as the Middle East? No - this can be explained by the location of the Middle East, that is true, but to a large extent it is due to the explosive, violent nature of the people who live there. There are also other issues such as the oppression and lack of education of women, are there any other countries in the world as rich as Saudi Arabia and the UAE where the level of education of women is so alarmingly low?

It doesn't stop there, in light of the recent protests, have you ever seen any other religious group that is so overtly violent? I have never seen Jewish, Christians or any other religion react in such a way. It's also appalling the way children are brainwashed into believing that "jihad" and the protection of their religion should be placed above all else.

On top of that, there is a reason why the world makes associations between Islam and terrorism, where there is smoke, there must be a fire, these things don't come out of nowhere, it is because of the aggressive nature of Islamic theocracies.

Either way, of course, you are right, there are moderate Muslims who are harmed by the negative view many have of the Islamic religion, but considering so many of the issues which surround Islam around the world, I am not surprised this is the case.

[pi]

It can't be denied that Islam is a religion of violence and aggression,

Do two things:
1) Ask your Muslim friends "Do you think Islam is a religion of violence and aggression?"
2) Read the entirety of The Culture within AN, especially the parts regarding tolerance and not making sweeping statements.

[paulsterio]

1) Of course if they're Muslim they're not going to say "oh yes, Islam is a religion of violence and aggression"

2) I have read the entirety of it, I have also posted in there, I think my previous post was reasonable, I did not attack anyone, I have provided some sort of loose evidence and I've said that Dan who knows the religion much better than myself can explain further. I don't see what point you're trying to make pi.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Jenny_2108]

^ I don't think "Islam is a religion of violence and aggression"

The first time I went to Mel, I was bullied by a boy. Lots of people saw that but no one said or did anything because they were afraid  they would be bullied as well. And only a Muslim person stood out and helped me.

I have some Muslim friends and they are really good
Of course in society, there are bad and good people but don't judge them just because of the minority

[pi]

The point I'm making is that making large sweeping statements that have little evidence are what we are trying to stop on AN. Such statements include:

It can't be denied that Islam is a religion of violence and aggression

I'm not Muslim and I'll deny it. What of it?

this can be explained by the location of the Middle East, that is true, but to a large extent it is due to the explosive, violent nature of the people who live there.

LOL, proof please?

are there any other countries in the world as rich as Saudi Arabia and the UAE where the level of education of women is so alarmingly low?

Yeah, plenty actually.

It doesn't stop there, in light of the recent protests, have you ever seen any other religious group that is so overtly violent? I have never seen Jewish, Christians or any other religion react in such a way.

You've only been around for 18 years, look through the history books.

And there are a few more