Jill Meagher's Disappearance Poses Some Interesting Questions to Discuss

[thushan]

As we well know, Jill Meagher has disappeared at around half past 1 in the morning whilst walking home from a bar in Brunswick. Discussion in the media abounded and this poses the following questions:

- What is your take on a woman, specifically a woman, being on the street late at night? The dimensions of this discussion I think are Women's Rights and Gender Roles/Stereotypes, Freedom, and what SHOULD be as opposed to what it IS PRAGMATICALLY.

Further follow-on questions:

- What are the implications of this story on the gender disparity in terms of one's safety on the street?
- Some people have suggested that Jill Meagher may have been "drunk" or "asking for it." Whilst these claims are most probably false and quite sexist, it leads to an interesting discussion on this: Why such attitudes and stereotypes - what perpetuates this?

[Eriny]

Speaking as a girl, I feel like a lot of men fail to comprehend the fear we're inculcated to fear when we go outside in the dark. It's kind of scary and distressing. I feel unsafe to walk outside in my own neighbourhood. This is despite that statistically women are more likely to be attacked and raped by someone they know.

The stats on rape are scary. One in four women get raped. Men get raped too, but not nearly as many, and in general men are the rapists (not many women rapists exist). This is a really pressing and unresolved gender issue of our time - violence is used against us, if not literally, than the thought of it becomes part of the lived experience of women. I am not as entitled to enjoy the outdoors or walk home at night as a man is. It's pretty stark to me.

It's obviously prudent for women to take care when they are outside, alone, at night. It's better not to be in that situation. But, the charge that Jill Meagher deserved what happened to her is an incredibly flawed and upsetting argument. It's called victim-blaming. Nobody deserves to be attacked. We should never be vindictive towards the victim. All of us take precaution against crime - locking our doors, keeping an eye on our stuff, etc. but if don't, that doesn't make anyone entitled to steal things from us. It doesn't mean that we somehow wanted our things to be stolen. There's a fine line between warning people and asking them to be sensible, and blaming them for the times things do go wrong.

I also wonder about what impression we must have of men to argue that a woman is asking for it for being out late at night. Men aren't monsters, they are capable of not abducting, attacking, and raping women. They are capable of decent behaviour. They aren't lurking behind the corners at night time. We can ask more of men because they are capable of more than what they are often given credit for. This idea that men can't help themselves if they see a woman alone is totally ludicrous and damaging to both genders.

[Starlight]

+1 to eriny. I think it's unfortunate that women have to think much more about how to defend ourselves if such a case occurred.

[nisha]

I agree. I would never go outside at night, alone if I could prevent it. Yes, it is our right to be able to walk the streets alone and not be attacked, but in too many instances incidents have happened when the outcome is a little scary.
We all have a sense of freedom, but when it comes to walking the streets at night, it can all become a little blurred. The statistics, as Eriny mentioned, are alarming.
As a woman, I would construct my day especially to avoid being alone at night, and put in force, everything I can do, to get home safely.

[JellyDonut]

I read Catherine Deveney's column on this and I must ask: Do women really find it offensive if a guy asks (or insists) on walking them at night?

And this adressing of men and women as some homogeneous blob feels weird.

[nisha]

I find it demoralising that we need that company to walk the streets as night, but the fact is, we do. So no, I wouldn't find it offensive at all.

[VivaTequila]

This girl met me at the station one time and picked me for a chiller and decided to very intentionally follow me home because she lived in the same general direction. I clued onto what was happening but pretended to ignore her, up until the point where it just became too funny for both of us to contain, so we struck up a conversation and I officially walked this awesome stranger home. She's like 4 years my senior and we're friends now. Nothing happened that night, if this was at all suggestive. I just took her home, and she was super appreciative, and we both found the story really funny from that point on because she was SUPER blatant about wanting to walk home with a guy covering her.

Probably in part because it was midnight on the Napean Highway.

Sucks to be a girl in this respect, but imho you guys have got it sorted. Free drinks at bars? The guys ask YOU out? Bitch please. Do you know how much courage that shit takes if you're smitten for someone?

To any girls reading this, any guy that's ever asked you out should be proclaimed a saint for the courage displayed.

Back on topic: yes, it sucks that girls have to deal with this. But then again, we could be a patriarchal society filled with domineering males fuelled by religious propaganda and mass hysteria, so it's not all bad. IMHO there's bigger issues in the world than a person getting kidnapped and brutally murdered. That's not to say we shouldn't all be shocked and turn heads when it happens IN AUSTRALIA, but I also think there should be a lot more attention due to real issues. Russian politics is absolutely fucked. And there's a lot worse out there than that.

This just isn't an issue that I'm particularly holding close to my heart, for some reason. It's shocking and terrible, yes, but there is much worse than that going on in the world which I've been exposed to lately. I'll probably think along a different line tomorrow, but fuck it, you live once. Posting this and then sleep.

[thushan]

They found her body. In a shallow grave. She was killed, and possibly raped (a man has been charged with her rape).

EDIT: Told my mum. Her response was along the lines of "i blame her, its her fault. she knows its dangerous, yet she still did it. what he did was very wrong, but she shouldn't have put herself in the situation in the first place." She had also earlier said "what is this woman doing at a bar at 1 am in the morning? womans (sic) should be home by 9 pm. she was probably a drunk." I couldn't believe my ears.

[Starlight]

They found her body. In a shallow grave. She was killed, and possibly raped (a man has been charged with her rape).

Absolutely disgusting. I can only hope that some day her family, husband and friends can recover from this trauma.

[thushan]

Why El2012, why? Why do they have to rape and kill? Why? WHY? What is it they want? Is it sexual pleasure, and then "oh shit she's going to talk i should kill her," or is it the rush of degrading a woman and feeling powerful (which is just sick) because once you disarmed her you have the power to do anything to her? Or is it "i like to kill her, but before she's dead I'd like to pleasure myself first." It's SICK.

Life sentence hopefully. With some SERIOUS psychiatric treatment.

[Eriny]

Sucks to be a girl in this respect, but imho you guys have got it sorted. Free drinks at bars? The guys ask YOU out? Bitch please. Do you know how much courage that shit takes if you're smitten for someone?

To any girls reading this, any guy that's ever asked you out should be proclaimed a saint for the courage displayed.

Back on topic: yes, it sucks that girls have to deal with this. But then again, we could be a patriarchal society filled with domineering males fuelled by religious propaganda and mass hysteria, so it's not all bad. IMHO there's bigger issues in the world than a person getting kidnapped and brutally murdered. That's not to say we shouldn't all be shocked and turn heads when it happens IN AUSTRALIA, but I also think there should be a lot more attention due to real issues. Russian politics is absolutely fucked. And there's a lot worse out there than that.

This just isn't an issue that I'm particularly holding close to my heart, for some reason. It's shocking and terrible, yes, but there is much worse than that going on in the world which I've been exposed to lately. I'll probably think along a different line tomorrow, but fuck it, you live once. Posting this and then sleep.

I hardly think that you can compare asking a girl out with fear of being physically harmed. Plus, you know, girls ask guys out too.
Also, violence against women is a huge problem world over, often used as a weapon in wars (by all sides, plus within one side). It's also used to try and silence and intimidate 50% of the population. There may be more important issues, but we're all capable of thinking about more than one issue.

I read Catherine Deveney's column on this and I must ask: Do women really find it offensive if a guy asks (or insists) on walking them at night?

And this adressing of men and women as some homogeneous blob feels weird.

If I know them, not really. If it was a stranger, I guess it would depend on the vibe but I think it would be more creepy rather than offensive.

 Some men are surprised to find that women don't tend to like being cat called. They're like, 'accept the compliment'. But no, it's not a compliment. It doesn't make my day to think some guy thinks I'm attractive. I'm not in the world to please them. Plus, it makes me feel unsafe.

[thushan]

I read Catherine Deveney's column on this and I must ask: Do women really find it offensive if a guy asks (or insists) on walking them at night?
And this adressing of men and women as some homogeneous blob feels weird.

This leads to another question - how can you trust that the guy walking you at night isn't himself going to rape and kill you? He's got you at your most vulnerable. :/

[Felicity Wishes]

Poor lady. Although she should have been aware of the consquences of being alone at night, in a wider persepective, I don't think women are to blame. Just because she was alone and had just left a bar, does not mean she 'asked for it'. Seriously, rape is the fault of the rapist and no one else.

[thushan]

Absolutely. But I want to further discuss this point that many people in the public seem to make often - they say she should be partially held responsible because she put herself in a dangerous situation by being alone at night. Similar situations could arise in the future, and we might have to make similar decisions during our lives. What do you think of this notion?

[pi]

The man who did this is very sick but I hope the courts don't let him off in the slightest. This is a massive tragedy