Zionism

[mr.politiks]

That's not the official title. It's "known" by that title.

Either way, the writers have full authority to modify it if they so wish. Why havent they?

[enwiabe]

That's not the official title. It's "known" by that title.

Either way, the writers have full authority to modify it if they so wish. Why havent they?

Why is it known by that title?

I love how that's the only thing you can take away from my post. It just fits with your usual "Selective but Humourous Moral Outrage".

HOW DARE HE MISQUOTE THE TITLE OF THE REPORT

[enwiabe]

mr.politiks, when are you making your syria thread? 30,000 people have died there in 18 months and the entire country lives under oppressive rule. Where is your moral outrage?

[mr.politiks]

Why is it known by that title?

I love how that's the only thing you can take away from my post. It just fits with your usual "Selective but Humourous Moral Outrage".

HOW DARE HE MISQUOTE THE TITLE OF THE REPORT

Because Goldstone was the chair.

Now instead of dodging the question, answer it. Why hasn't it been retracted or modified?

[enwiabe]

Because Goldstone was the chair.

Now instead of dodging the question, answer it. Why hasn't it been retracted or modified?

Because Goldstone, as the chair, was the one who wanted to modify it, but has faced opposition from other writers. He has moved on with his life, as have the other authors. But the fact that the CHAIR OF THE REPORT in the face of new evidence issued personal retractions should be enough for you to stop and think "maybe he has a point"

But you'll never do that, because you can only accept 'evidence' which supports your conclusions. Because you've been brainwashed since before you could think for yourself that Israel is evil. Wake up to yourself.

[mr.politiks]

Because Goldstone, as the chair, was the one who wanted to modify it, but has faced opposition from other writers. He has moved on with his life, as have the other authors. But the fact that the CHAIR OF THE REPORT in the face of new evidence issued personal retractions should be enough for you to stop and think "maybe he has a point"

Or maybe, perhaps, if you read my earlier post:

"Further information as a result of domestic investigations could lead to further reconsideration, but as presently advised I have no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time."

The follow up McDowan report also states:

79. The Committee reiterates the conclusion of its previous report that there is no
indication that Israel has opened investigations into the actions of those who designed,
planned, ordered and oversaw Operation Cast Lead.

[Professor Polonsky]

There seem to be a couple of different points of contention here, and I'll try to address them both, giving my own view.

Zionism, as a political stance, is the belief in the continued existence of Israel as a Jewish and Democratic State. (If this phrase sounds familiar, it can be found in Israel's quasi-Constitution and significantly shapes public debate and Constitutional jurisprudence.) This view is an extremely broad one, and for that reason it is held by people from all across the Israeli political spectrum. In terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, some of those people (with whom I personally very strongly disagree) also believe that Israel should assert sovereignty over the West Bank and expel its Palestinian population, while others support the immediate dismantling of all settlements, a complete exit from the West Bank and a final status agreement with the PA. The latter group is actually a lot larger than the former, and it represents the entire left-of-centre part of the spectrum. Even Likud (in theory, at least) supports it.

There is nothing wrong or immoral with Zionism by itself. It is simply a stance which supports the right for the Jewish people to a State of their own. Nationalism. Nothing special.

The second point of contention is whether the IDF targets civilians, and/or whether it is guilty of war crimes.

If the IDF systematically targets civilians, it is doing a terrible job at it. That one of the most advanced armies in the world would completely fail in such a simple mission is outright ridiculous.

In fact, for fighting in such a densely-populated area, the ratio of civilian to militant casualties has been extremely low in recent rounds of escalation. Have you checked the number of civilian casualties in Vietnam? The Gulf War? Afghanistan? Iraq? Not only are they much higher than the number of civilian Palestinian casualties, but they are also proportionally much higher when compared to militant casualties.

Have mistakes been made? Absolutely. Have civilians died when they should not have? Yeah. But this can be said about every single war Australia participated in in the 20th century. Should we be criticising the ADF instead? I've never seen the same level of scrutiny as applied to the IDF being applied to any other military in the world.

[mr.politiks]

http://www.landmineaction.org/resources/Foreseeable%20Harm.pdf

Pretty bad mistake, eh?

[Russ]

People would probably take you seriously and/or think you have an intelligent point to make if you posted regularly and actually tried to have some form of discussion, rather than avoiding questions and just sporadically posting criticisms of Israel.

[ninwa]

He requested a username change for the sole purpose of posting an Israel-bashing thread. You're really not going to get any intelligent discourse out of him at this point. For the sake of fairness I'll let him have a final say then I'm going to lock it

[mr.politiks]

I think enwiabe can have the final say. Why is it fair to call out Assad (who drops cluster bombs on civilian areas) for brutally murdering civilians, but not the IDF?

Why lock it? Reason?

[JellyDonut]

IVE GOT THE FINAL SAY

[ninwa]

I think enwiabe can have the final say. Why is it fair to call out Assad (who drops cluster bombs on civilian areas) for brutally murdering civilians, but not the IDF?

Why lock it? Reason?

Because you won't engage in a proper discourse. You started the thread and yet you keep disappearing / avoiding people's questions and comments. When you are ready to have an actual discussion, you may start a new thread.

[Russ]

IVE GOT THE FINAL SAY

no me