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June 13, 2025, 12:13:20 pm

Author Topic: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica  (Read 22122 times)  Share 

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MonsieurHulot

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2012, 12:10:28 am »
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It seems like a hugely flawed argument. I'm not aware of any data that shows a relationship, positive or negative, between pornography consumption and rates of rape, murder etc.. The way you said it made it sound as if anyone who watches porn inevitably turns to rape and murder to satisfy themselves, as they "can't go back".
I don't think that you should let that lecture change your opinion on pornography, as there is no evidence to support its contention.
I could say that global warming has led to the rise in "unsuccessful relationships", but it would be pointless because there is no proof whatsoever to support this, much like the assertion that pornography consumption leads to rape and murder.

slothpomba

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2012, 06:51:19 am »
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Recently at my school, we had a person come in and talk to us about healthy relationships - with a particular focus on the role of pornography in our current society....

That doesn't make it true though, does it? Just because someone is older or supposedly smarter it doesn't necessarily make their idea right. I don't say this because of the above but due to the below where you took it to be true simply because some guy told you it was. I don't think it's all that brazen to question his  motives and intentions considering he goes around giving preaching about this topic.

Basically, it's becoming an addiction amongst our generation, because it's 1) accessible, 2) affordable and 3) anonymous (or supposedly anonymous).

Addiction is a strong and emotive word, we have to be careful with how we use it. It's very hard to nail down and unless this guy was a medical professional or scientist, i'd be weary of what he labels an "addiction" (especially considering a possible agenda).

We have to separate what is normal and an addiction and what isn't (without being too narrow either).

It's clear things we do on a regular basis that are essential for survival like eating, drinking, sleeping and sex aren't addictions within themselves. They make us feel happy and good, we crave them. This craving drives us to do essential things because they are pleasurable much in the same way that pain drives us to not do harmful things.

We see this in the lab with rats. How do you make a rat happy? For one, you can give him food. Our little rats dopamine (a chemical involved in pleasure & happiness) spikes up. You can also introduce a female rat and let them get their mojo on. This makes our rats dopamine spike up even more. Much the same happens in us but like i said above, these things are normal and it's important they're pleasurable and rewarding because they are crucial to survival (Incidentally, heroin makes it shoot way, way up much more than an orgasm or eating, which is one of the reasons it is so addictive, because it's just that good).

I'm not convinced the accusation that it's addictive or bad is based on science rather than morality.  If someone has sex with their partner a few times a week and their dopamine shoots up, you wouldn't say they're a junkie. Under the assumption pornography works in much the same way, if someone chooses to consume it a few times a week, i fail to see why its much different in any kind of chemical or psychological sense. I'm not totally convinced that this doesn't result from a narrow view of what might be normal or right, it wasn't that long ago that many people believed homosexuality was a mental disorder. Likewise, i think "internet addiction" is partially related to the fact the authors of these manuals were born in a different time.

I found it rather hard (even with all the resources uni gives me) to find many things on non-drug addiction, let alone this topic. I did manage to find a general framework here, it goes like this:

In the case of behavioral addictions, it is important that patients be evaluated in the context of several other factors, including the extent to which their behavior (1) disrupts personal, family, social, or vocational pursuits;(2)causes significant personal distress to self or others; (3) has risk or potential for significant physical or emotional harm to self or others; (4) is uncontrollable or resistant to change (eg, patient feels out of control or unable to reduce or change the behavior), and (5) is not better accounted for by an alternate psychiatric diagnosis

Looking at it in this way, i doubt the vast majority of people are addicts or "our generation is becoming addicted" assuming it occurs a few times a week and consumes no more than a few hours. I think of course a few people will be addicted to it much in the same way some people can be addicted to food (that is they compulsively overeat).

Of course, it's also important to note that to be an addiction it must be compulsive and hard to control but it also must cause significant harm or impairment. If you're staying home from school or missing work or its so hard to control you have to fire it up on the train, then, that is a problem. If it's simply because you're bored, have a lot of free time and have a sex drive, i'm not at all convinced that a person like this is anything close to addicted.

When people become totally dependent on it, they escalate and start to seek more 'hardcore' content - not realising they are literally killing their sex drive as it's very difficult to "go backwards", if that makes sense. They start to become desensitised and stop caring about the thoughts and feelings of other people and during sex, people are only considered as 'objects' by those involved. They eventually reach a stage where no content can fulfill their urges and they turn to murder, rape and other horrible crimes to provide themselves with sexual satisfaction.

I dont know if this is true. It seems like they're trying to apply a substance addiction model (eg. coke, heroin) to porn. It is true these drugs, you do need to "escalate" or increase your dose but that is for a very different reason. They're not increasing the dose because want an even larger high, they're increasing the dose to be able to maintain the same high as (your body gets better at eliminating or responding to the drug*).

Gambling is a good example because it doesn't involve a drug. This study asked if gamblers constantly increased their bet size to gain the same rush or if it was down to things like poor financial management or chasing losses. They found you probably can't become tolerant to gambling in the same way you can with drugs. We can apply that to porn. Many seem to discover it around puberty so i'm sure at least a few people have been at it for a good couple of years, those of you out there(dont need to put your hand up), i doubt many of you needed to constantly kick it up a notch to be satisfied to the point of watching rape as stick suggests.

I'm not convinced if its operating in the direction you're speculating. That consuming pornography, especially of the kind most people don't consume (violent, etc), leads to the urge to murder, rape etc. I think it might actually work the other way, people who already do have the urge to murder or rape will be excited by these kind of things and seek them out, they definitely won't find them objectionable like a normal person either. (Just speculating) In much the same way, people experience social difficulties, depression and other problems might be more likely to compulsively turn to pornography BECAUSE of those things rather than porn causing those things. So, porn addiction might be a symptom not a cause.

Look, if it's as dire as your speaker suggested, the past 50 years in the western world have seen an explosion in the availability and acceptance of pornography, murder and rape rates would have skyrocketed. They haven't, in many places they fell significantly. In the third world where people have little access to internet or pornography in general, you'll find much higher rape and murder rates compared to the west.

*technically called pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic tolerance for those who are interested

----

I could say that global warming has led to the rise in "unsuccessful relationships"

It's certainly decimated our pirate population...



« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 07:42:48 am by kingpomba »

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Stick

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2012, 10:05:02 am »
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I only wish you could perhaps speak to him over this matter, because it'd create a really interesting conversation.

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2012, 03:17:10 pm »
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I only wish you could perhaps speak to him over this matter, because it'd create a really interesting conversation.

https://www.facebook.com/DavidandKatieKobler?fref=ts

What are their credentials? It doesn't say anywhere on the page...
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2012, 04:29:27 pm »
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No idea, but he told us that he was happy to take further questions from us. If anyone wants more information about what I presented, go to him. :)
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2012, 04:38:15 pm »
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I only wish you could perhaps speak to him over this matter, because it'd create a really interesting conversation.

https://www.facebook.com/DavidandKatieKobler?fref=ts

What are their credentials? It doesn't say anywhere on the page...

"Friend of god" a credential?

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thushan

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2012, 04:45:11 pm »
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I would partially disagree with the notion that pornography addiction is a symptom, not a cause. I think it can occur in and of itself; pornography is associated with carnal pleasure, yes? It would stimulate our pleasure centres in the brain. Now that is, in and of itself, okay. However, you could call it an addiction when you experience a compulsion, a dependence, on porn. Sometimes you know that that dependence is not good for you (say it detracts from your sex life with your wife/girlfriend), yet you simply could not resist. That's addiction. There are a variety of things that could cause addiction - pornography for one, Facebook for another (I would consider myself an addict - I'm pretty much dependent on it).
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2012, 04:50:05 pm »
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I only wish you could perhaps speak to him over this matter, because it'd create a really interesting conversation.

https://www.facebook.com/DavidandKatieKobler?fref=ts

What are their credentials? It doesn't say anywhere on the page...

"Friend of god" a credential?

http://pinterest.com/katiekobler/

Yeah I suppose being upstanding Christian's is good enough :P !
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2012, 05:00:26 pm »
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There is pretty reasonable evidence that exposure to porn without exposure to a normalised sexual relationship does alter a teenager's ability to sexually interact and redefines norms, so in that sense, it is causing a downwards trend in relationships. Whether or not it drives you to murder is kind of a stretch though.

thushan

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2012, 05:40:25 pm »
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There is pretty reasonable evidence that exposure to porn without exposure to a normalised sexual relationship does alter a teenager's ability to sexually interact and redefines norms, so in that sense, it is causing a downwards trend in relationships. Whether or not it drives you to murder is kind of a stretch though.

In that case, it wouldn't be a good idea to watch porn then. Ah.
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2012, 05:46:38 pm »
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As an impressionable 14 year old, no it wouldn't be. That's why it's illegal.

thushan

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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2012, 05:57:34 pm »
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True. So unless you're sexually active, watching porn isn't a good idea then.
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2012, 06:14:12 pm »
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True. So unless you're sexually active, watching porn isn't a good idea then.

This is all just generalizing though. What happens to the majority of people does not necessarily happen to the individual.
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2012, 06:23:31 pm »
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True. So unless you're sexually active, watching porn isn't a good idea then.

This is all just generalizing though. What happens to the majority of people does not necessarily happen to the individual.

Mhm. Except that it'd be better to not do it, just to mitigate the risk.
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Re: TABOO TOPIC: Pornography/Erotica
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2012, 06:24:38 pm »
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There is pretty reasonable evidence that exposure to porn without exposure to a normalised sexual relationship does alter a teenager's ability to sexually interact and redefines norms, so in that sense, it is causing a downwards trend in relationships. Whether or not it drives you to murder is kind of a stretch though.
Do you have a link?