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September 12, 2025, 01:44:06 am

Author Topic: Gym Thread (2013)  (Read 92640 times)  Share 

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Mr Keshy

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2013, 10:08:43 pm »
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if you dont have doms, youre not growing. this could be for a plethora of reasons. it could be:

not training hard enough
technique isnt there 100%
not being 100% clear on what a muscle is meant to feel like when contracted (for a test, can you tense your lats on demand? if you cant, this means that you havent gotten used to contracting your back, ie, your back technique has been out)
picking the wrong excercises/wrong order

my personal guess, is that its technique. technique for almost everybody, and i was stuck at that position for about 4 months. thats when i decided to get serious, and i found eyad

It could be technique, but having said that. Some conflicting evidence on the web also confuses me too. Some say that it happens to some but not to others..  I did get doms when I first started, only then it started to disappear. So just perhaps, it could be that the extra weight is causing me to lose form. I'll pay more attention from now on. I'll also log my results from Monday to keep track of improvements.

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abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2013, 10:10:01 pm »
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I get doms pain for only a day or two, is that bad?
it could be much better. mine usually start 12hrs after and im back to normal on the 5th day. if its only lasting 1-2 days, youre only spending 2 out of 7 days per week growing a particular muscle. try to work out why, and see if you can get it to go on for a few more days :)

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abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2013, 10:15:08 pm »
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It could be technique, but having said that. Some conflicting evidence on the web also confuses me too. Some say that it happens to some but not to others..  I did get doms when I first started, only then it started to disappear. So just perhaps, it could be that the extra weight is causing me to lose form. I'll pay more attention from now on. I'll also log my results from Monday to keep track of improvements.
you will always find conflicting evidence in the gym world unfortunately...

its normal for it to start to disappear, cos your muscles are soooo not used to excercise, all of a sudden, you excercise, so virtually any load is extra load on your muscles. but then 6 months down the track, how do you improve? and thats the super hard part... im 90% sure its that you dont know exactly what it feels like to take a muscle, and shred it to pieces. do you you feel your chest burn when you bench press? can you physically feel your lats contract when you do a lat pulldown? that takes a very very very long time to develop, and thats how i overcame my plateau at the end of 2011.

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thushan

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2013, 10:17:32 pm »
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I'll tell you what I do:

Day 1 - Chest + Bicep:

3 lots of chest press (the straight one, then two inclined) 3 x 8-10
chest press with dumbbells 3 x 8-10
bicep curl with barbell sitting down with arms on that pad (free) - this one is amazing!
bicep curl with dumbbells
bicep curl with free barbell
bicep curl with machine

Day 2 - Shoulder + Tricep

shoulder raises with barbell on Smith machine (really good!)
pull up barbell from ground and pull towards thorax standing up
lateral shoulder raises
chin/skull crushes
the one where dumbbell is behind head
tricep pull down

Day 3 - Abs/Back

ab curl (i go heavy - 10 reps)
planks with weight
hang and flex and extend legs
back extensions with weight
seated row

Day 4 - Legs
Squats (just figured out proper technique today)
Lunges
tried deadlifts - i didn't feel it :/ have to work that out
leg extension with machine
calf raises

Day 5 - rest

Yeah Babes - only over the last two days have I focused on really squeezing the living daylights out of the muscle - is this what you mean?
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Mr Keshy

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2013, 10:29:20 pm »
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you will always find conflicting evidence in the gym world unfortunately...

its normal for it to start to disappear, cos your muscles are soooo not used to excercise, all of a sudden, you excercise, so virtually any load is extra load on your muscles. but then 6 months down the track, how do you improve? and thats the super hard part... im 90% sure its that you dont know exactly what it feels like to take a muscle, and shred it to pieces. do you you feel your chest burn when you bench press? can you physically feel your lats contract when you do a lat pulldown? that takes a very very very long time to develop, and thats how i overcame my plateau at the end of 2011.

Interesting this. I do not feel my chest or my biceps burn ever. But I don't get the difference, if I'm going until failure what's the difference whether there's burn or not? I understand it has to do with lactic acid but I'm still not too sure. I do feel my lats contract when I do pull downs. But what's weird is that I can feel the burn in my legs when running and Triceps? I can really feel the burn in my triceps but not my biceps or chest.

I think it's my form like you said. Or could it even be my rests?
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CH3ezEC4KE

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2013, 10:30:57 pm »
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I followed kris gethin's free 12 week program on bodybuilding.com. 'twas awesome.
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abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #111 on: January 19, 2013, 10:33:46 pm »
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ok cool, im gonna make adjustments and explain the reasoning as well:

Day 1 - Chest + triceps:
1stly, look how much chest you do, vs how much biceps. biceps is a pathetically small muscle compared to your pecs, and so they need far less work to reach failure. also, triceps are always engaged in chest excercises, so we'll kill them off at the end of chest. I find that machine chest presses are almost never any good (unless youre JUST starting), unless its like, a cable press or hammer strength one.

-BB bench press x4
-Db flat bench (so you can drop the weight and it doesnt really matter if you fail, you can just drop them)x3
-DB incline pressx3
-dips x 3 (dips are great for shaping, and warm up tris!)
-cable triceps extensionx3
-overhead Db ext x 3

skull crushers are a very very bad excercise for triceps development, the force runs perpendicular to gravity for the entire 2nd half of the motion, so they only work the inital half of the triceps and only do anything if you go really deep.

Day 2 - Shoulder/traps/abs
shoulders are a small muscle, but have 3 heads which have distinct functions. as such, they often take a while to train, but you dont feel physically exhausted, so thats why ive put traps/abs.

DB side raises x 4 (great medial isolation)
DB military press (now do your compound excercise, after youve pre-exhausted your muscle) x 3
front raises x 3
rear raises (on a pec deck, if you have one) x3
DB shrugs x4
as much abs as you want :)

Day 3 rest


Day 4 - Legs
Squats x 3
Lunges x3 (at least 40 reps, so go low weight, 5/6 kgs per hand)
tried deadlifts - i didn't feel it :/ have to work that out
leg extension with machine superset with leg curls
calf raises

if you find this easy, do lunges first, do your squats on a smith machine SUPER slowly, and put in leg presses before your extensions/curls

Day  - 5 Back (2nd largest muscle in your body, so train it alone, or with biceps!)
looking at the order of your workout, and the amount of back work you had, it shows your priorities. abs will come if you do everything else, theyre not something that need to be trained anywhere near as hard as everything else :)

lat pulldown x4
seated row x 4
DB pulloversx3
DB biceps curl x3
BB biceps curl x2


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abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2013, 10:40:58 pm »
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Interesting this. I do not feel my chest or my biceps burn ever. But I don't get the difference, if I'm going until failure what's the difference whether there's burn or not? I understand it has to do with lactic acid but I'm still not too sure. I do feel my lats contract when I do pull downs. But what's weird is that I can feel the burn in my legs when running and Triceps? I can really feel the burn in my triceps but not my biceps or chest.

I think it's my form like you said. Or could it even be my rests?
that burning feeling means your muscles are physically tearing, as they should be. i think its form, and not rest... maybe its a good idea to get an experienced gym partner for a couple of weeks?

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dzzhao

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #113 on: January 19, 2013, 11:05:34 pm »
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Going to failure is a tool that is heavily overused, Arnold actually swore by volume over failure. If you go to failure on every set you wont be able to lift more loads and thus tax your muscles more.

Take this example.

You can DB bench press 40kg dumbells 3x10, and you fail hardcore on the 2nd and 3rd sets. your overall tax on your muscles are 30x40 = 1200kg

Or, you DON'T go to failure, rather you do some german volume training. (10x10)
10 sets of 10 reps with 30kg, not going to failure on the sets. You tax your muscles 100 x 30 = 3000kg, see the difference?

So leave your ego at the gym, get aware and start getting fucking big, google up "German Volume Training" if you're serious about bulking up and wanting to try something different, the first time I did it every muscle group was sore (I remember waking up with chest soreness/cramps/DOMS when sleeping on my side).

« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 09:48:37 pm by dzzhao »

abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #114 on: January 19, 2013, 11:13:38 pm »
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Quote
So leave your ego at the gym, get aware and start getting fucking big, google up "German Volume Training" if you're serious about bulking up and wanting to try something different, the first time I did it every muscle group was sore (I remember waking up with chest soreness/cramps/DOMS when sleeping on my side).
you should always feel like this. i trained chest on wednesday morning and i cant bring the groceries inside without sharp pain.

GVT is something you should only look at if your completely out of options. another super important thing:

powerlifting is about lifting weights.
bodybuilding is about contracting muscles. dont measure it by saying the number of reps/sets you do, and by the weight you use. heres a favourite video of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8wZNGL4iA4
(ps, nobody supports curling in the squat rack)

the guy is the 2nd best bodybuilder in the world, and he curls 30 lbs = 15kgs. as if thats not enough, he fails on rep 9. its not about volume... GVT is something to look at if youve been doing for decades and need something to push you over the edge. also gives you some insight into what your doing when you say youre reaching failure. that was failure, and only 9 reps. because the movement was 100% done by biceps. all other joints were locked. so when you say you fail at 16 reps with 17kgs dumbbells, then your form is out
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:19:41 pm by babes22 »

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dzzhao

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #115 on: January 19, 2013, 11:21:37 pm »
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Kai Greene is smart, form is always important and shouldn't be replaced for lifting heavier, a great thing about volume over failure is that you're forced to do good solid reps with volume (as you don't go to failure necessarily), whereas with going to failure you're going all out and trying to get extra reps by cheating (as Kai said and I'm sure seen by a lot of people, if you've watched people struggle with barbell curls they start swinging their body for momentum to help bring the bar up).

Lifting needs to be consistent and protein intake/diet should be too, get on the $1 sale tunas at coles and safeway, be aware 20g protein in a can healthy fats little to no carbs = protein of the godz

xx

abeybaby

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #116 on: January 19, 2013, 11:23:10 pm »
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Kai Greene is smart, form is always important and shouldn't be replaced for lifting heavier, a great thing about volume over failure is that you're forced to do good solid reps with volume (as you don't go to failure necessarily), whereas with going to failure you're going all out and trying to get extra reps by cheating (as Kai said and I'm sure seen by a lot of people, if you've watched people struggle with barbell curls they start swinging their body for momentum to help bring the bar up).

Lifting needs to be consistent and protein intake/diet should be too, get on the $1 sale tunas at coles and safeway, be aware 20g protein in a can healthy fats little to no carbs = protein of the godz

xx
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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2013, 02:08:43 pm »
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i got back into gym..
been starting off with my old routine.
squats, deadlifts, overhead press, 5x5
squats, bench press, bent over rows, 5x5
not on the same weight as i used to be, but i feel the strength coming back.

Going to be training at dohertys gym flinders st next year.
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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #118 on: January 20, 2013, 06:06:07 pm »
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i got back into gym..
been starting off with my old routine.
squats, deadlifts, overhead press, 5x5
squats, bench press, bent over rows, 5x5
not on the same weight as i used to be, but i feel the strength coming back.

Going to be training at dohertys gym flinders st next year.

does 'next year' mean 2013 or 2014?

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Mr Keshy

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Re: Gym Thread (2013)
« Reply #119 on: January 20, 2013, 06:17:17 pm »
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that burning feeling means your muscles are physically tearing, as they should be. i think its form, and not rest... maybe its a good idea to get an experienced gym partner for a couple of weeks?

I won't be able to find a gym partner unfortunately. Only because I'm at home. I do have a cousin doing his final year in physio :) and a few friends that are pretty good at gyming! I've been watching heaps of videos.

But just thinking about it, I think you're right about form... Maybe, just maybe, I'm not going down low enough?
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