THe Disparity between Private and Public High schools.

[Pup]

It so unfair, that private school kids have greater opportunities to achieve their full potential. For example, they have examiners as teaechers, generally more well-equiped teachers and facilities, and most tend to get higher ATar scores than students in poorer performing public schools. As such, private school kids are fed everything by their teachers, and public school kids are taught to rely on independent learning. It is absolutely ridiculous. I wanted to get in Medicine, but even though I achieved an atar score of 97, this is not good enough for unis such as MOnash. It is unfair that they do not give special consideration into our UMAT scores, its not my fault, I couldn't afford UMAT coaching like any other private school kids. At least the Melbourne Model gives us  working class kids a chance into getting into a medical profession. 

[brenden]

I wouldn't say private school kids are fed everything. Nothing huge comes in VCE without working for it.

[pi]

As such, private school kids are fed everything by their teachers, and public school kids are taught to rely on independent learning. It is absolutely ridiculous.

I never went to anything but a Govt school, but that's a big assumption to make.

I wanted to get in Medicine, but even though I achieved an atar score of 97, this is not good enough for unis such as MOnash.

Um, I have friends with 97.xx ATAR in my year of medicine? They have SEAS, but it's 97.xx nonetheless.

It is unfair that they do not give special consideration into our UMAT scores, its not my fault, I couldn't afford UMAT coaching like any other private school kids.

Two things:
1) Not sure why private schools is being brought into this if your complaint is with the UMAT
2) You don't need prep courses to do well in the UMAT. They help some, don't help others. The UMAT can only be studied for to an extent, and if you know where to look on the internet, you can get many resources


All in all, this thread seems to me to be a mini-rant regarding you sadly not being offered an interview or whatever, and your putting the blame onto private school kids.

If you like the Melb Model, go to UoM.

[michak]

Spoon feeding can also be a bad thing which I did witness at my school. Some students relied solely on the teachers to teach them why they needed to know an thought that was enough and they didn't need to do any other work outside of this. As a result when it got to exam time these kids were stuck with most of them just not knowing what to studying because there was no one there telling them what to do. Most of them I know didn't do as well as they thought they would.

[thushan]

It so unfair, that private school kids have greater opportunities to achieve their full potential. For example, they have examiners as teaechers, generally more well-equiped teachers and facilities, and most tend to get higher ATar scores than students in poorer performing public schools. As such, private school kids are fed everything by their teachers, and public school kids are taught to rely on independent learning. It is absolutely ridiculous. I wanted to get in Medicine, but even though I achieved an atar score of 97, this is not good enough for unis such as MOnash. It is unfair that they do not give special consideration into our UMAT scores, its not my fault, I couldn't afford UMAT coaching like any other private school kids. At least the Melbourne Model gives us  working class kids a chance into getting into a medical profession. 

I feel for you. And that's one of the good things about the Melbourne Model - it acts as a 'leveller' if anything.

And to be honest, I don't think that it's so much the spoon-feeding that makes private school kids do better in general, but the culture of the school. This is really important. Motivation to study is really really hard to come by if you are not encouraged by your peers or even ostracised, or worse still, bashed up (ask Brenden). Resources help, that's true. And that's one thing ATARnotes is trying its utmost hardest to give -

1) Free notes, accessible to all.
2) Free help, accessible to all at any time, with experts on AN in every subject giving up their time to help out.
3) UMAT program at 1/5th of the price of something like MedEntry (which, incidentally, is a very exploitative company)
4) Study guides written by past students, at relatively low prices (given the volume of content here!)

[brenden]

I think this should be moved into Rants and Debate before it becomes a respect share.

[thushan]

I never went to anything but a Govt school, but that's a big assumption to make.

I think it lies mostly in the environment rather than the resources, having been to both independent and government schools.

[pi]

Melbourneguy, what is the real issue you want to discuss, your own experiences with Medical entrance aside?

[Planck's constant]

thush,

This topic should not have been moved to Rants and Debate.
It deserves better.
OP is right on the money, and he is backed up by the findings of the Gonski Review last year.

[Aurelian]

thush,

This topic should not have been moved to Rants and Debate.
It deserves better.
OP is right on the money, and he is backed up by the findings of the Gonski Review last year.

I think the move was based more on the rant-like presentation of the topic by the OP, as opposed to anything to do with the issue itself =)

[thushan]

thush,

This topic should not have been moved to Rants and Debate.
It deserves better.
OP is right on the money, and he is backed up by the findings of the Gonski Review last year.

Rants and Debate topics are not necessarily not credible - debates are held here as well mate.

[Planck's constant]

Rants and Debate topics are not necessarily not credible - debates are held here as well mate.

OK, let the debate begin

[Planck's constant]

I predict that this thread will become a runaway smash hit

[Mr. Study]

Hmm, I thought I'll chuck in my two cents.

I have been to two different public schools, one in a very shit neighbourhood and one in an amazing area. Needless to say, the education quality,  teacher support and student cohort were shocking to me. To be honest, going into year 12 with a new school was very overwhelming for me, I could not deal with, what was to me, a much superior public school and as such, throughout last year I constantly kept questioning why is this difference so apparent. Hell, I even talked to my school principal about this actually, as I was literally having issues with this difference, and yet he couldn't give me a straight answer.

.. I know this is a discussion between Private and Public but I thought that I should add that not all Public schools are the same. Some have amazing teachers, student cohort and facilities whilst others' are just simply terrible but never seem to be publicised in the media. Example: When VCE results were released, Ten News highlighted Glen Waverley Secondary College's VCE Results, which were amazing, but they had only highlighted one, of a handful, of 'good' public schools.

My 2 Cents.

[thushan]

Socio-economics are at the centre of it.

Say the school I used to go to (before Scotch). Teachers were generally fairly decent. But think about it. Many of the people come from family backgrounds that may not take education as seriously as some. I myself had a student whose family denigrated her because she wanted to go to uni. That, and it was also perpetuated by what is 'cool' at school. Those in power set the rules, and quite often it is this:   Studying was, quite simply, not cool.

And these guys enforce the rules. Nerds get picked on, ostracised, even bashed up after school. Being a smart ass and treating the teacher like shit makes you popular (at this age, the distinction between 'popularity' and 'respect' is minute). So what happens? People are conditioned that study = negative, and those who DO want to study are often left unmotivated without a strong support network.

And at the worst schools, the teachers are too busy trying to deal with the innumerable fights going on (I have this from a couple of people who came to my chem talk last year) - and those fights stem from family problems and being taught that violence solves problems. Achievement disparity is not self-contained - it is interconnected with all sorts of other socio-economic factors.

This furthers Mr Study's point - I would say to that that the 'good public schools' and the 'private schools' have one thing in common, and that is a supportive school culture.

If you want to solve this issue, you have to go to the absolute core of the problem, and it's a mammoth task. You are talking changing an entire social system. If we could actually perform that task, it would be amazing.