Curtin Opening New Medical School

[paulsterio]

Actually, commonwealth supported places in medicine are still capped by the government.

Ahh my bad then, but regardless, the issue will still be present in a lot of other areas. Apparently it's already happening in Dentistry.

[TheManG]

Hmm, hopefully this is relevant to the discussion but I found this very interesting:

At least 20 per cent of the intake will be offered to students from low socio-economic, rural and Indigenous backgrounds. Students will be encouraged to apply from the neighbouring outer metropolitan schools in areas of social disadvantage. In the admission procedure these students will be allocated a relative weighting to account for their educational disadvantage. Scholarships will be targeted toward these students, but in all other respects the students will meet Curtin’s academic standards for entry.

I found that very interesting in that I don't think any other university in this country has this initiative. Yes, Monash has a SEAS initiative, in regards to the Vice Chancellor's Access Monash Scholar's Program, but even then, do they consider people from low socio-economic backgrounds? How many students, within Monash Medicine, come from Private/Select Entry schools?

I applaud this university for having this initiative but at the same time, I believe they shouldn't have opened a medical school. (i.e Internship crisis)

[thushan]

Hmm, hopefully this is relevant to the discussion but I found this very interesting:

I found that very interesting in that I don't think any other university in this country has this initiative. Yes, Monash has a SEAS initiative, in regards to the Vice Chancellor's Access Monash Scholar's Program, but even then, do they consider people from low socio-economic backgrounds? How many students, within Monash Medicine, come from Private/Select Entry schools?

I applaud this university for having this initiative but at the same time, I believe they shouldn't have opened a medical school. (i.e Internship crisis)

Yeah, that initiative is really good.

That said, each university can decrease its intake very slightly (intake of local students to minimise loss of profit) to a sum of 100 to counteract the opening of the new medical school - and then if the governments scrap enough money to increase number of internship places, the unis have the capacity to increase numbers again.

[dossie58]

It's not as simple as war = bad, doctors = good. In fact, I'd say sending doctors to third world countries would be even more of a waste of money than fighting a war, way more of a waste. The problem with third world countries is not that they lack doctors, it is that they lack what is called primary health care. Primary health care relates to concepts such as breastfeeding, maternal and child health, clean water, sanitation, family planning, immunisation, availability of basic medications...etc. If you want to help a third world country, supplying them with vaccines for common illnesses will be many, many times more effective than sending over a million doctors.

In fact, if you had the money to send over doctors, you might as well just put that money towards PHC, aid and food.

You are right, sending doctors for the sake of it won't work. But this is obviously to be done in conjunction with other programs. Sending doctors to educate rather than just practice . Of course for this to work , new healthcare institutions must be developed with aid to local govts to solve sanitary issues. Regarding resources, the west clearly got it, but in a globalised pragmatic community, this seems a rare set of actions.

[pi]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/opinion/a-new-medical-school-no-thanks/story-e6frgcko-1226578854033

OPINION
A new medical school? No thanks
BY:KYLAR LOUSSIKIAN From: The Australian February 16, 2013 12:00AM

IT seems the good graces of electioneering have finally handed Curtin University a break, with a promise from the West Australian premier to help fund its long-desired medical school.

Colin Barnett’s $22 million pledge may be music to the ears of a University hungry for prestige and research funding that come with these schools, but it left medical professionals unimpressed, and for good reason.

Curtin has mounted a public information campaign online and through the media pushing for government funding, and it hopes, federal government approval.

Their campaign website, doctorsforthefuture.com.au is a trove of information, with a series of facts purporting to support the case for another medical school. But with a closer look, it seems many of those facts aren’t particularly relevant to the argument.
 
Let’s take them one at a time.
 
The central claim is that 356 additional medical student places are needed each year to meet demand. There are three sources for this ‘fact’:
 
1. A superseded regional plan prepared by Regional Development Australia, a plan that seems to have been revised with any mention of medical student shortages dropped,
2. A statement issued by Charles Sturt University, themselves seeking approval for a medical school, that relates largely to a lack of rural students, not medical places in general, and
3. A National Health Workforce Taskforce report that is no longer available dated 2009.

The real facts are that medical student numbers have increased dramatically since 2009, with an additional 2347 students in medical programs, and an additional 244 students in the first-year intake.
 
The number of students is dramatically higher than only five years ago. In 2007, there were only 11,949 students in medical programs. Now, there are 16,868, an increase of 40%.
 
Why such a rise? Perhaps it has to do with five new medical schools being established in the last five years; Bond University, University of Wollongong, University of Western Sydney, Deakin and Notre Dame in Sydney have all started producing medical students.
 
The bulk of Curtin’s ‘supporting statistics’ have to do, however, with growth of rural and regional populations and the lack of rural doctors. The shortage of medical professionals in regional Australia is undeniable, but it does not follow that this is because there aren’t enough graduates.
 
The problem, according to the Australian Medical Association (Western Australia) and other medical professionals, is the lack of post-study training programs. Because medical students are either unable to access training in rural areas, or choose not to, they end up practising in the city.
 
Even more medical graduates will put further pressure on oversubscribed rural medical training programs. This will only increase the number of doctors in urban practices, and do nothing to increase numbers in the bush.
 
Curtin’s website points to a fact-sheet issued by the Rural Doctors Association of Australia on shortages in rural areas. Perhaps the university should have had a closer read of the one page flyer. It clearly states the issue is one of “maldistribution of medical practitioners.” It makes no mention of the need for more graduates.
 
Barnett’s comment that the West is lagging behind states that have two medical universities is baffling; WA turns out medical graduates at UWA and at Notre Dame.
 
The Premier urged the federal government to approve and help fund the new school, but a more effective use of the money – perhaps funding more regional training places – would be far more desirable.

[iamtom]

To its credit, this is in WA, and I'm pretty only UWA has a medical school - and that's post-grad.

So this isn't too bad? If it happens.

[pi]

Well, it's going to mean more intern places are needed. And even now, we don't have enough.

It's just a reckless move at this time.

[IndefatigableLover]

Well, it's going to mean more intern places are needed. And even now, we don't have enough.

It's just a reckless move at this time.

Ah but at what time will it be the 'right' time?
If we wait a few more years.... who knows what the situation will be like in terms of intern places as such. I don't think they'll solve the intern crisis fast enough and if they decide to open this new medical school... well I guess it'll be adding more 'fuel to the fire' :S

[pi]

If there is no "right time", then no curtin med school imo.

[Hancock]

So why does the 5 new med schools in the country get to have one and Curtin doesn't? They all contribute to the over-supply of graduates and they are relatively new.

[pi]

I'm not in favour of those medical schools either

But what's done is done, now is really just damage control. Opening this new med school will only make things worse.

[Hancock]

I believe that Curtin's approach to admission and rural medicine should allow it to be established, however, the government really needs to step in a regulate the market (the universities) given that the CSP places are funded by the tax payers.

This intern crisis, from what I gather, is mainly situated graduates and hospitals around the metropolitan areas. I propose that universities such as Melb, Monash, UQ, USyd, UNSW, UAdel, UWA and other major universities in largely populated areas should have small cutbacks individually, so that the sum of the total is a reduced graduate output for Australia. I realize this is somewhat discriminatory, and would need some hard data to support such a segregation of medical schools into 'cut-backs' and 'non cut-backs' but it does seem like a viable alternative from my somewhat-informed perspective.

[pi]

This intern crisis, from what I gather, is mainly situated graduates and hospitals around the metropolitan areas.

The vast majority of intern places are in hospitals that are metropolitan. And not any hospital can have interns or make new places just like that, there's accreditation and govt funding involved iirc.

Deakin and the like also have a supposed "rural focus", but I honestly doubt that the majority of Deakin grads will work in rural areas just because their uni isn't metro-based. Although time will tell when more and more grads are out.

This intern crisis, from what I gather, is mainly situated graduates and hospitals around the metropolitan areas. I propose that universities such as Melb, Monash, UQ, USyd, UNSW, UAdel, UWA and other major universities in largely populated areas should have small cutbacks individually, so that the sum of the total is a reduced graduate output for Australia.

That's viable, but I doubt those unis would agree to it that simply It's much easier to not have another med school than cut back from the rest of them just to open a new one that might not even help have more grads in rural areas.

[Tomw2]

Deakin and the like also have a supposed "rural focus", but I honestly doubt that the majority of Deakin grads will work in rural areas just because their uni isn't metro-based.

I agree. The rhetoric is based on the unsupported notion that a significant number of graduates from "rurally focused" medical schools will go rural.

Bonding and incentives make people go rural in significant numbers, not so-called rural-themed medical schools. Infrastructure and clinical support help too.

At this point in time, in line with the basic principle of putting scarce resources to their best use, I don't see how any government could justify anything other than increasing intern places and the infrastructure that will facilitate these new graduates progressing into roles that will serve the needs of the community (aka specialist training programs). These needs are what lead to the increase in med student and med school numbers in the first place.

Opening new medical schools and increasing places makes no sense considering how much lobbying and intense negotiations were required to get enough intern number to break even this year.

Ah but at what time will it be the 'right' time?

A time when there is some guarantee that the investment the taxpayer is making will yield a proportionate increase in fully independent medical practitioners within a reasonable time frame.

[pi]

Sorry for the bump, but on the topic of new med school proposals -_-

http://www.amsa.org.au/press-release/20130725-amsa-opposes-proposed-new-medical-school-in-bendigo/