The Issues in VCE Physics - The Great Debate

[Kanye East]

I personally enjoyed Physics during year 12 because it was taught pretty well in school. The teachers kept it really interesting as they did a lot of experiments and demonstrations so we could relate it to other kinds of application. I reckon that people's opinions towards physics, or subjects in general, are based on how the content is exposed to them, as well as if the student has a keen interest in the subject. Also, the nature of VCE where everyone is competing against each other causes people to sway into doing detailed studies that they aren't interested in, but are considered easier to get marks in. I guess it's a bit of a comprimise, teachers have to be good at teaching the subject, students should do the subject if they have a keen interest, and pick a detailed study that is interesting.
We learnt relativity and even though the detailed study was a mind fuck, it was by far the most interesting one

[paulsterio]

I think one of the issues with not just VCE physics, but physics in general is that it's such a broad discipline. Like if you tried to define what physics exactly is, it's a lot harder to define than chemistry or biology. For example, biology is (more or less) the study of living things and chemistry is (more or less) the study of the composition, interactions and behaviour of matter. Though I know both biology and chemistry are broader than this, if you tried to explain to a year 7 student what chemistry is and what biology is, it's not that hard to do.

To explain what exactly physics is, however, is much more difficult. Wikipedia claims that physics is the "general study of nature" - but what in the world does that exactly mean? Because under that definition, all branches of science can be considered physics in some way or another. The "broadness" of physics is what causes the issue because students go into VCE physics (and probably first year undergraduate physics as well) expecting different things.

Like Rohit said, people expect to go into physics learning about black holes and instead, they learn about basic mechanics, basic electronics, some properties of light and waves as well as a bunch of formulae. Again, topics covered in first year physics at an undergraduate level (e.g. thermodynamics, classical mechanics, simple harmonic motion, a bit of special relativity...etc.)  aren't exactly the cutting edge subjects that some people expect.

In some ways, I think to those who don't do it, physics has some sort of "coolness factor", which really isn't quite there, like come on, to somebody who doesn't know what "quantum mechanics" is, it sounds pretty damn cool.


What I like about the current VCE physics course?

1) It does give an insight into the various areas of physics. i.e. reasonable breadth
2) It's got a mix of calculations and explanations.
3) It allows students who might not be good at mathematics to understand how certain things work.

What I don't like about the current VCE physics course?

1) No maths - though this is arguable.
2) No Y11 -> Y12 progression
3) No integration between areas of studies.
4) "Not cool"


The issue of mathematics

Though I agree that physics later on relies heavily on mathematics, physics at a VCE level, I think, should be conceptual, it should be about developing a good qualitative understanding of the world around us. For example, when I drive around a bend, I like to know why I'm not skidding off the road.

Personally I don't like having a tiered system because my question is "why physics"? Why has physics been chosen as the subject which needs "more maths"? All of the sciences, particularly chemistry will depend on mathematics at a higher level too. Like really, organic chemistry and electrochemistry/thermochemistry at a VCE level isn't exactly rigorous either. Is it that VCE physics REQUIRES more mathematics? Or is it that we have come to expect that physics should have maths? If it's the former, why shouldn't we do the same for chemistry?

Again, sorry for the late reply!

[BigAl]

Classical mechanics->Why are classical mechanics insufficient to explain the current physical phenomenas-> special relativity->applications of special relativity (synchrotron) I think this is what you mean by integrity. I'm wondering how many teachers follow this order. The thing about particle-wave duality must be applied to classical and relativistic mechanics..And special relativity must be compulsory

[appianway]

I'm doing my tenth physics/applied physics university course this semester, and although I agree that physics is very broad, I see physics as a way of thinking and approaching problems. Even though my classes range from classical mechanics to nanoscale physics to earthquakes, they have been unified by the approach that has been used to solve problems. I think the current lack of mathematics in the VCE syllabus prevents physics from serving that purpose. :/

[Mao]

Differential equations are on the VCE syllabus? Huh.

Yep! They are already in specialist.

[polar]

I just realised something... won't students that do a calculus based physics have to learn the same basic calculus again? Because students that do specialist learn calculus before earlier than they do in methods. So a physics student that does specialist would essentially be learning the same thing three times.

[thushan]

I just realised something... won't students that do a calculus based physics have to learn the same basic calculus again? Because students that do specialist learn calculus before earlier than they do in methods. So a physics student that does specialist would essentially be learning the same thing three times.

The calculus would be assumed knowledge I assume (no pun intended)?

[BigAl]

The calculus would be assumed knowledge I assume (no pun intended)?

Einstein started learning calculus when he was 12..so why waiting for y12?

[pi]

Well we don't all have his intellect

[offtopic]

But I think calculus should be taught in yr10, so that by yr12 maths and physics can be more advanced.

[paulsterio]

Well we don't all have his intellect

[offtopic]

But I think calculus should be taught in yr10, so that by yr12 maths and physics can be more advanced.

I honestly think that maths and science education in Australia is a total joke, the fact that linear equations isn't really taught till year 8 is bad, so, so  bad.

They should just do away with the hocus pocus stuff in junior maths already.

[John President]

I definitely agree with the opinion that VCE Physics needs to require 3/4 Methods (concurrently or previously) so it can incorporate some calculus into its syllabus - particularly where mechanics is concerned. And certainly I think they should reduce the handwritten cheat sheet to a default A4 formula sheet, to reduce the emphasis on memorisation.

But another issue I think needs to be addressed is the unequal nature of the detailed studies. I'll take Unit 3 physics as an example - the vast majority (including my old school) tend to choose Materials and Structures because it is far and away the easiest detailed study. Meanwhile, Relativity is much more conceptually difficult. Clearly, the nature of VCE discourages schools from choosing relativity. Either the Materials and Structures (and to a lesser extent Further Electronics) content has to be beefed up in order to make the studies more equal in difficulty, or the whole "Detailed Study" concept needs to be redesigned.

Subject definitely needs less transposing formulas and counting squares on graphs.

[paulsterio]

I definitely agree with the opinion that VCE Physics needs to require 3/4 Methods (concurrently or previously) so it can incorporate some calculus into its syllabus - particularly where mechanics is concerned. And certainly I think they should reduce the handwritten cheat sheet to a default A4 formula sheet, to reduce the emphasis on memorisation.

You'll find that the maths in mechanics is actually a lot easier than the maths in electric power or light and matter if you were to make physics more maths-y. For example, you'd have to understand beyond specialist maths concepts (e.g. vector cross products) to properly understand concepts such as magnetic flux properly (as opposed to "amount of magnetic field threading an area").

And yeah, cheat sheet should be given the boot, detailed studies should be given the boot too.

[John President]

You'll find that the maths in mechanics is actually a lot easier than the maths in electric power or light and matter if you were to make physics more maths-y. For example, you'd have to understand beyond specialist maths concepts (e.g. vector cross products) to properly understand concepts such as magnetic flux properly (as opposed to "amount of magnetic field threading an area").

And yeah, cheat sheet should be given the boot, detailed studies should be given the boot too.

I've done one 2nd year physics subject so am not a total novice (am defs not appianway level though) and I don't think physics needs to go to the extent of incorporating cross products - like you said, they aren't even in Spesh and it would be too large of an initial step. Hence why I specifically mentioned mechanics. Replace counting squares with integrals. Move the physics component of Spesh into physics. Explain calculus-based definitions of physical quantities (such as force being the change in momentum with respect to time).

Having said that, electromag is pretty watered down too. In VCE, you don't even need to understand sine and cosine graphs when they are fundamental to phenomena such as alternating currents and oscillations.

[paulsterio]

I've done one 2nd year physics subject so am not a total novice (am defs not appianway level though) and I don't think physics needs to go to the extent of incorporating cross products - like you said, they aren't even in Spesh and it would be too large of an initial step. Hence why I specifically mentioned mechanics. Replace counting squares with integrals. Move the physics component of Spesh into physics. Explain calculus-based definitions of physical quantities (such as force being the change in momentum with respect to time).

Having said that, electromag is pretty watered down too. In VCE, you don't even need to understand sine and cosine graphs when they are fundamental to phenomena such as alternating currents and oscillations.

Ahh, nice, that's awesome. What I'm thinking along the lines of is that it's not critical that they understand integrals to be able to understand concepts such as area under a curve. Like, it's more important, at a VCE level anyway, to understand the concept of area and change rather than integration.

It's a bit of a funny issue, like, it really comes down to the fact that it's not just as simple as "adding more maths" - you don't want it to turn into mechanics in spesh, where you can really apply calculus principles without really understanding physical concepts. The amount of times I had to explain what momentum is to spesh friends who didn't do physics, argh!

[John President]

An anecdote I just recalled: In the first week of 2nd semester of 1st year Physics at my uni, my lecturer did the working out on the board for an electromag problem, which involved several integrations and changes in co-ordinates. I took notes along with everyone else, believing the problem to be difficult but at the same time understanding what the lecturer was doing and kind of relishing the challenge. At the end of the problem, the lecturer called a finish to the class and I sensed from the stunned silence that the majority of people in the room were completely unprepared for this level of mathematical difficulty in physics. I think the implications of this story are obvious and need no restatement.

Also, another lecturer of mine constantly seemed to underestimate our knowledge - for example we were supposed to have done cross products and ODEs in high school. Then again, the same guy expected us to remember the conservation of energy from primary school