Is Julia gillard being targeted due to her gender?

[EvangelionZeta]

I think there was a reason why you used the tautology, and that is that you didn't think it was a tautology. You really thought that that was a point which distinguished the LNP from the ALP, and when you actually looked up what the ALP stood for (generally a good idea when trying to argue against them) you have now proceeded to try to worm your way out of it. I'm satisifed that I was right and you're just backpedalling.

You still remain to show how Abbott or an Abbott-less LNP will be stronger for the economy. I've asked you which of their policies will do this, and you're yet to pinpoint one.

Dan, as somebody who generally agrees with what you're saying in this thread so far I do think you've jumped the shark here - it was a throwaway comment; let it go and just move on. This isn't worth antagonizing a fresh high school graduate over, and nobody cares if you're right or wrong - let's move back to productive discussion, please.

Indeed, let's focus henceforth on alon's reasons for why a LNP (even sans Abbott) might have better economic policies.

[alondouek]

Indeed, let's focus henceforth on alon's reasons for why a LNP (even sans Abbott) might have better economic policies.

I'll be entirely honest (and enwiabe's going to love this), but I don't know the particulars of the LNP's economic policy. So, from their 'Economic Action Plan' (http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Economic%20Action%20Plan.pdf):

1. DEBT REDUCTION
Our number one economic priority will be to get Labor’s debt under control as quickly as
possible. Proceeds from the sale of Medibank Private will be quarantined for paying off
Labor’s debt. Through better budget management we will also deliver savings over the forward
estimates to be used to further tackle Labor’s debt. Our Debt Reduction Taskforce will manage
this process.

2. STOPPING THE WASTE
Ending Labor’s waste and reckless spending will help restore the budget to surplus and get
Labor’s debt under control, enabling the Coalition to deliver lower, simpler, fairer taxes in our
second term. We will immediately suspend payments under Labor’s wasteful ‘Building the
Education Revolution’ programme and redirect this funding directly to school communities to
ensure value for money. Other practical measures to reduce waste include the establishment
of an Office of Due Diligence to examine government spending proposals for their potential
for waste and mismanagement before they begin, and a Waste Action website to enable the
Australian public to report waste and make suggestions for savings.

3. TAX REDUCTION
The Coalition will stop Labor’s higher taxes. We will remove the threat of the mining tax and the
carbon tax, and cut company tax, providing targeted and economically responsible tax relief in
our first term. We will also provide a clear medium-term pathway to further tax relief that can be
delivered once Labor’s debt is under control.

4. BOOSTING PARTICIPATION AND PRODUCTIVITY
The Coalition will boost productivity to deliver economic growth. Key productivity measures
include measures to boost workforce participation for young Australians, women, and seniors.
The Coalition’s mental health reforms will further drive workforce participation and productivity
gains. Our comprehensive package of small business initiatives will help to drive the growth of
the ‘engine room’ of the economy. In addition, we will reform the way economic infrastructure
is delivered and provide a new funding stream to boost infrastructure investment. Further
regulatory reform will also help drive growth.

5. SUSTAINABILITY
Economic policies must take into account social harmony, quality of life, the provision of
adequate infrastructure and the preservation of the environment. The Coalition will establish
the concept of sustainability as the cornerstone of economic decision-making by reconstituting
the Productivity Commission as the Productivity and Sustainability Commission. We will also
implement our fully-costed direct action plan on the Environment and Climate Change and our
water policy that will provide sufficient water for the environment while preserving Australia’s
capacity for food security

Granted, this is a biased document (as it is sourced from the LNP itself), but it outlines the economic goals of the party. I believe that the LNP would be better at achieving these goals than the current administration. Could I be wrong? Absolutely - I'm no political analyst.

Also, this document has a lot of the same type of points-scoring that I criticised Gillard for earlier. Just thought I'd be equal in my criticism for Abbott's points-scoring as well. If our two main parties weren't so focused on mud-slinging, they'd accomplish a lot more, regardless of which holds the prime-ministership.

[pi]

I'm going to show my political noobiness here, but what policies do the Libs actually have? (not goals, policies)

[EvangelionZeta]

I'm going to show my political noobiness here, but what policies do the Libs actually have? (not goals, policies)

What policies do either parties have? This is the issue with Australian politics at the moment...

[alondouek]

I'm going to show my political noobiness here, but what policies do the Libs actually have? (not goals, policies)

The difficulty here is that you don't generally have 'policies' when you're the opposition - your goals become policies when you enter government (that's my take on it anyway).

I'll give you the sources directly for you to read at your leisure. You may as well skip the sections that are labelled "How Labor Has Failed" - that's just electioneering.

"Infrastructure": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Infrastructure%20Policy.pdf

"Innovation, Industry, Science and Research": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Industry%20Policy.pdf

"Energy and Resources": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Resources%20and%20Energy%20Policy.pdf

"Employment Participation": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Employment%20Participation%20Policy.pdf

"Sustainability": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Coaition%20Economic%20Principles%2018%20May%202010_0.pdf

"Australia's Future" - whatever they mean by that: http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Australias%20Future%20Policy.pdf

[jazza97]

Just get Bob Katter in-he'll sort it all out.  He is very potent of course http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKDiZzcuLo4

[Professor Polonsky]

All this "ALP is against free market" bit reminded me of this

National Constitution of the ALP:

The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields.

Just like Labour's (UK) Clause IV, it'll probably have to go sometime. I find it nice though that they remember their roots, even if actually practicing it in today's economy would be suicidal (or, at best, a massive risk). Labor today, of course, is no less a supporter of the neoliberal free-market system than the Liberals, except one which helps the lower and middle classes more.

Whether Tony Abbott is a misogynist or not (and that depends on your definition of misogyny, and getting into definitional debates is stupid), his views on social issues are outdated and fit in much more 60 years ago than today. Gillard's speech was an attack on Abbott, but unlike those going the other way, it was substantiated with evidence and quotes.

Labor's economic management has been nothing short of amazing. If it wasn't for cheap politicking, that stupid surplus promise would never have happened and we'd be happy with a budget deficit. Like a budget deficit in the order of 0.15% of the GDP is going to have any substantial impact on our economy.

[Professor Polonsky]

The difficulty here is that you don't generally have 'policies' when you're the opposition - your goals become policies when you enter government (that's my take on it anyway).

I'll give you the sources directly for you to read at your leisure. You may as well skip the sections that are labelled "How Labor Has Failed" - that's just electioneering.

"Infrastructure": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Infrastructure%20Policy.pdf

"Innovation, Industry, Science and Research": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Industry%20Policy.pdf

"Energy and Resources": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Resources%20and%20Energy%20Policy.pdf

"Employment Participation": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Employment%20Participation%20Policy.pdf

"Sustainability": http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Coaition%20Economic%20Principles%2018%20May%202010_0.pdf

"Australia's Future" - whatever they mean by that: http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/default/files/ccd/Australias%20Future%20Policy.pdf

Those are 2010 policies...

[alondouek]

Those are 2010 policies...

Sourced from here, not my problem.

Having read through the materials, it seems to me that almost all of the information (barring the "Australia's future" section) is still relevant, and is still party policy.

[enwiabe]

I'll be entirely honest (and enwiabe's going to love this), but I don't know the particulars of the LNP's economic policy.

Why would I love that? Why would I enjoy watching someone blindly align themselves to a party when they have no idea what their policies are. What do you think I'm castigating you for, here? You make these bold claims that LNP is better for the economy and you didn't even know what their economic plan was. Your hubris is astounding.

[alondouek]

Why would I love that?

You're right, that was rude and I apologise.

But I have to ask, to what "hubris" are you referring? The hubris of I admitting that I don't fully know particularities about something, or where I apologised for an back-handed remark?

I wouldn't say I've "blindly aligned myself" to the LNP - I've made my decision based on how I see their policy. If my choice bothers you so greatly, good. Democracy!

[enwiabe]

You're right, that was rude and I apologise.

But I have to ask, to what "hubris" are you referring? The hubris of I admitting that I don't fully know particularities about something, or where I apologised for an back-handed remark?

I wouldn't say I've "blindly aligned myself" to the LNP - I've made my decision based on how I see their policy. If my choice bothers you so greatly, good. Democracy!

The hubris of claiming LNP will be better for the economy when you don't even what their plan is.

[alondouek]

The hubris of claiming LNP will be better for the economy when you don't even what their plan is.

Hubris = 'excessive pride or self-confidence'. Not sure if that's entirely applicable here, but call me whatever names you like.

And you know what? If all voters were to vote for the party whose policies they understand best, our next government will be the Australian Pirate Party.

Welcome to free Australia, where I don't have to be castigated for not knowing each and every detail of my preferred party.

[enwiabe]

Hubris = 'excessive pride or self-confidence'. Not sure if that's entirely applicable here, but call me whatever names you like.

And you know what? If all voters were to vote for the party whose policies they understand best, our next government will be the Australian Pirate Party.

Welcome to free Australia, where I don't have to be castigated for not knowing each and every detail of my preferred party.

You're right! You are free to be as ignorant as you want, and to be as proud of it as you like

And I am free to make fun of you for it.

[alondouek]

You're right! You are free to be as ignorant as you want, and to be as proud of it as you like

And I am free to make fun of you for it.

I mean, it's hard to see any point you're making past all the ad homenum, buddy!

Why do you feel so strongly that the ALP would be better for Australia's future, anyway?