Revolutions Support Thread 2013

[Patches]

Anyway, I was just wondering to what extent do you discuss different historians perspectives in an essay? And how many quotes, say from other sources and historians would you recommend per paragraph?
Thanks in advance

I'm assuming by essay you mean the actual essay question on the exam paper (the last one), not the paragraph answer or document analysis.

In my experience quotes are useful in the essay to support your argument by making it more sophisticated, but they are only required to the extent that they're one source of evidence (along with dates, statistics etc).If you use them to compare different views in a way that strengthens your argument that's great, but dropping them in in place of analysis will weaken your essay.
You're definitely not required to compare views like in the document analyses though.

I couldn't really put a number on how many to use, but if you read a few posted here or elsewhere you should be able to work out how many is too many. I wouldn't stress too much about quotes for the essay. Also, are you really doing essays in term 1? We didn't start practicing them until term 3 o.0

[sjayne]

Thanks Yeah, it's actually my first time doing one and will be on the sac which sucks a lot. I should have thought ahead and done some practice but oh well.

[jeanweasley]

ahah, Glad you enjoyed it Lolly, can I call you that by the way?

Koby: Browse the forums, there are great resources here and there's also alphahistory, johndclare.net etc and a lot of other useful websites. I found out that in Year 12 most teachers don't really "teach" so most of the time, it'll be up to you to fill in the blanks. Good luck and let us know how you're doing. (:

[koby]

We had much the same with the class, but the motivated guys just sat and worked together. It worked out pretty well I'd say - our class of 20 or so got a 50, 46 and two 45s

As for structure, the best thing to do is post your practices here and we can have a look at them. There's quite a lot uploaded already - my notes on russia aos1 have a few practice paragraph answers if you can find them. All you really need to do is identify three relatively separate points and explain the significance of each - over time you'll pick up useful phrases to use in almost every question.
The 10 markers are very formulaic - I think people struggle because they try to right an amazing essay, but really all you need is three clearly separated points that each contribute to answering the question. You don't need a flowery introduction or very sophisticated words, just a clear understanding that lets you answer the question.

Good luck!

its good my best friend is doing history as well, and he is a really smart guy, we mostly study together..
thank you so much for your help, it really cleared up alot of things for me...
the notes on this site is great, ( thanks to everyone for sharing) i'll try to find your notes... . and thanks for wishing me luck

[revsteacher]

I found out that in Year 12 most teachers don't really "teach"

This is very true, because the Revs course has so much content that it would be impossible to cover it all in the few lessons you have each week. Teachers couldn't possibly teach you all you need to know AND important skills-related stuff, like how to approach exam content. The students who do best in Revs are the ones who take responsibility for their own study and don't just expect to have everything handed to them in class. It's a tough ask but can be very rewarding if you do well. 

R.

[Cort]

I'd advise against that, Cort. Extended writing in VCE History should be mostly or entirely analytical, not narrative or descriptive. There's also a strong risk that you would go off on a tangent and not answer the question.

R.

Ah, if only I read this earlier.

The SAC was today, and I have to state that I was foolish enough to go on with it, and it didn't turn out too swell. However, now that I've learned that the hard way, I just wanted to ask if anyone might have some high scoring essays that I could possibly look at? Would be great learning tool to see how people types theirs up.


Cort

[Lolly]

This is very true, because the Revs course has so much content that it would be impossible to cover it all in the few lessons you have each week. Teachers couldn't possibly teach you all you need to know AND important skills-related stuff, like how to approach exam content. The students who do best in Revs are the ones who take responsibility for their own study and don't just expect to have everything handed to them in class. It's a tough ask but can be very rewarding if you do well. 

R.

Even in light of this,  I do feel I have been really well guided through the Revs course. We're given handouts with readings or page references to readings from our textbooks, clear instructions of what to take notes on and the relevant questions to complete.  We do the work, come back to class and briefly discuss what we've learned and take summary notes. The teaching has been excellent and I haven't had to do any extra reading at all because the classwork is substantial ( I have to take home an entire freaking library to study ). As long as I keep up I (hope?) I'll be fine! I'm sorry to hear other experiences have been less than satisfactory, though.

[jeanweasley]

This is very true, because the Revs course has so much content that it would be impossible to cover it all in the few lessons you have each week. Teachers couldn't possibly teach you all you need to know AND important skills-related stuff, like how to approach exam content. The students who do best in Revs are the ones who take responsibility for their own study and don't just expect to have everything handed to them in class. It's a tough ask but can be very rewarding if you do well. 

R.

Yes, I figured this out and I'm so glad that I've actually finished my notes! I'm thinking to do some revision and practising paragraph answers on the holidays so you might see me post on this. Like one other poster said, could someone be kind enough to post their high scoring essay? I'll find some in the VCAA exam reports and I'll post it here later.

Also, I have a question. What is the actual structure of the exam? Also, when quoting historians, do we analyse their point of view or label them a revisionist/liberal/soviet historian? And just to clarify, historians quotes are reserved for the 10 markers right?

[revsteacher]

lollymatron, it sounds like you have a good teacher. The best way to teach Revs is to get students reading and prepping out of class, then discuss topics, concepts, issues, skills, etc. in the classroom. It makes for a good environment and some intelligent discussion. But Revs is not just hard for students, it's also hard for teachers, and not all teachers have a handle on it.

Cort, never mind about the SAC. There's nothing at all wrong with cocking up the first SAC; a lot of students do it. What is important is that you learn how to approach it better next time, which I'm sure you will.

R.

[revsteacher]

Also, I have a question. What is the actual structure of the exam? Also, when quoting historians, do we analyse their point of view or label them a revisionist/liberal/soviet historian? And just to clarify, historians quotes are reserved for the 10 markers right?

Rather than me trying to explain it all here, I suggest you go to the alphahistory VCE History section at http://alphahistory.com/vcehistory/ and take a look at their information about exam structure, as well as their practice exams. If you have any questions after looking at that, I'd be happy to help.

Re: historians, yes, generally the 10 markers in Questions 3 and 4 are where you should include historians. You can use the labels if you wish, however it is better to explain in your own words where your historians sit in relation to the source/topic being discussed. The assessors complain each year about students just name-dropping historians and labels, (e.g. "Richard Pipes, Western liberal historian") without showing any understanding of Pipes' perspectives.

R.

[Lolly]

Re: historians, yes, generally the 10 markers in Questions 3 and 4 are where you should include historians. You can use the labels if you wish, however it is better to explain in your own words where your historians sit in relation to the source/topic being discussed. The assessors complain each year about students just name-dropping historians and labels, (e.g. "Richard Pipes, Western liberal historian") without showing any understanding of Pipes' perspectives.

R.

After my teacher went to the teacher's conference he told us not to label historian's schools of thought in the d section, although now I see that is probably just to make sure that we fully explain  various historian's point of view. He's telling us to write something like " Trotsky would criticise Lynch's conjecture, instead claiming that the revolution came from below through"...conscious and tempered workers educated for the most part by Lenin".
 
Something like that.

[jeanweasley]

After my teacher went to the teacher's conference he told us not to label historian's schools of thought in the d section, although now I see that is probably just to make sure that we fully explain  various historian's point of view. He's telling us to write something like " Trotsky would criticise Lynch's conjecture, instead claiming that the revolution came from below through"...conscious and tempered workers educated for the most part by Lenin".
 
Something like that.

Oh, I see how that is a more sophisticated understanding. I'm going to research more on the exam features and such but I just had my SAC today and I was wondering how one would approach these questions:

* Evaluate the document in relation to why Nicholas was forced to abdicate in 1917. In your response, include the different views on revolution.

Here, I talked about his mistakes in the war and in leaving Alexandra to rule with Rasputin's influence. I don't think I've included the different views on revolution as it wasn't taught and it puzzled me a bit.

Also : How is this document accurate in relation to the events that occurred in 1905?

I discussed the events, analysed the picture (the one with the Tsar blowing bubbles and in those bubbles were his failed promises) and used historians'  quotes. Did I also need to mention the strengths and weaknesses as a source or not?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[indkel]

I created this thread to seek support from fellow Revs students because for one, my Revs teacher just reads the textbook, summarises its content and writes notes from the textbook without real depth. She mostly says that things were bad and constantly uses the word "man" as if I'm supposed to understand it because of that. While she is not entirely detrimental, it is suffice to say that I do not have confidence in just waiting for her to tell me what to do so I'm taking it upon myself to work hard, well hard-ER than now because Revs is bloody hard.

Anyway, in short, please post questions, possible answers to questions and critiques for improvements.
(I'm currently studying Russian and American revolutions. )

I think we have the same problem, and we're studying the same revolutions (although i'm doing the American rev first)
Do you know of any decent seminars, study guides, resources etc for revs? I've been looking but I just feel like rev resources are a little bit understocked :/ What are you enjoying most about revs so far?

[edwin]

I think we have the same problem, and we're studying the same revolutions (although i'm doing the American rev first)
Do you know of any decent seminars, study guides, resources etc for revs? I've been looking but I just feel like rev resources are a little bit understocked :/ What are you enjoying most about revs so far?

Hi indkel!

We're doing the same revs in the same order HTAV runs good seminars throughout the year, there was one two Sundays ago actually (I couldn't go because I had a chem SAC the next day!). As for study guides, if you have a good teacher, I don't think they're highly necessary, but by all means go buy one if you want some additional help.

I think I'm enjoying the jokes and puns about revs the most so far haha! The course content is great too, but the time leading up to a SAC is always extremely stressful... It sounds like Jean, yourself, and I should definitely help each other out this year

[Cort]

Hiyo,

Just wanted to ask all of you guys:
1)how do you begin your history essay?
2)Is it fine if you started off with a contextualising sentence?
3)Or do you just get straight to the point, answering the prompt given?

The general idea is that I want to get what's the basic structure that's acceptable, what to write and what not to write.

Cheers,
Cort