SEAS Debate

[ninwa]

It's a possibility but I doubt anyone who's able to attain a scholarship at a private school, or any other school for that matter, would require SEAS to properly get into the university course they want.

you do realise there are scholarships for things other than academic excellence?

your parents made the choice to fork out for a private education. nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to do it. grow up.

[slothpomba]

SEAS is a great idea but only a good system and implementation. I'm from the west side of melbourne, a fair few of the schools around here are pretty rough. Some kid burned down a part of my mates school and a separate time the parents of one kid came up to beat up another kid, so, clearly, not the most posh school out there (let alone a private one). I know the children of abusive alcoholic parents, terrible family enviroments, suffering from some illness,  etc. SEAS is definitely warranted in these circumstances. No one is going to perform as well as they would or indeed, could, given these crappy situations. It's not even giving them a boost per se in these situations, its making it fair.

SEAS isn't easy to automatically get and rightly slow. Things need to be proved and documented. No one (??) here is AGAINST SEAS as an entire concept, i think we can all agree it is certainly less than optimal though. It's good but its not the best it could be. We have some people get in who probably shouldn't, likewise, we have some people excluded who likely shouldn't be. It's good it catches the majority of those who actually need it but reform would still help even more.

From memory, being in receipt of FTB:A is sufficient to qualify for financial disadvantage, no matter how much you receive, which is inappropriate and not ideal.

No matter how much? If this is true, it's in serious need of reform. Here are the thresholds of when FTB:A cuts off entirely (eg you dont get a single dime)



Lets assume you have 1 kid, the cutoff rate is $101,458. That's before tax its roughly about ~$80,000 take home income after tax. You're not exactly a milionare but you are doing above average and i wouldn't say in any disadvantage. If any FTB:A qualifies you for SEAS, this needs to be seriously looked at.

[Dedicated]

Ill jump in as well. I didn't apply for seas only did the stuff where you didn't have to send documentations only needing to click a button. Some people insisted that I use my year 9 trouble with a eating disorder to get an advantage but I did not since it didn't affect my current vce studies then. Also I was surprised to receive an access melbourne scholarship somehow- maybe the location of my school was under representative in conjunction with my ATAR. Btw the school I went to was a private one but not elite nor expensive.

[Dedicated]

debate is over? If not im acting as the speaker

[Professor Polonsky]

Just jumping in here,

I live in a regional town thirty five kilometres from the nearest high school, and yet I still don't qualify for location based SEAS. Why? Because my school - in fact - any school I can attend, is located in a major city of Australia (despite still being 65km from Melbourne - work that one out...)

This is the only flaw I can see in SEAS personally. Everything else is water tight.

Here's a map, if anyone was wondering.

[brenden]

A lot of people like me see SEAS as an 'unfair disadvantage' but it may be because we haven't been exposed to everything that SEAS has to offer and how the SEAS process even works.

Yeah look man, I can really understand your position. I mean, the rich people thought it was pretty unfair that peasants wanted human rights in 1789, privileged males were pretty offended when women dared ask for recognition as people instead of property; it's quite common for the advantaged in society to feel pretty petulant when their advantage is on shaky ground. So I feel for you man, I really do.

I know what a true disadvantage is

No, you really don't. You know that your parents were disadvantaged. You know that people are disadvantaged. You know there are bad situations, but you don't know true disadvantage at all. Lol.


The FBA think in KP's post is pretty fucked. The people from private schools might also be legitimately disadvantaged. What's to say their parents didn't refinance a house or take a loan or any number of things to get the money just to send them to a school that means their kids won't have to worry like they do.


There will be a few people that use SEAS that don't need it. I looked at the Monash SEAS site, and of the categories I could have applied for/ am applicable for, I could potentially be given enough of an aggregate boost for my ATAR to be approximately 99.25. I mean, if my parents had enough to buy a study desk, that would be fucking sick, but ultimately, using my coffee table instead didn't decrease my ATAR monumentally.
And it's not a perfect system. Of course, nothing is. The FBA thing is certainly a worry. And I mean, you could even take the position to say that SEAS is more of a bandaid on an open wound, so it's 'not perfect' from whatever side you want to stand on.

[Professor Polonsky]

The FBA think in KP's post is pretty fucked. The people from private schools might also be legitimately disadvantaged. What's to say their parents didn't refinance a house or take a loan or any number of things to get the money just to send them to a school that means their kids won't have to worry like they do.

If anyone who gets any Part A benefits is eligible, then UoM is out of their fucking minds. Monash seems slightly more reasonable:

Being in receipt of a Centrelink benefit (not including Family Tax Benefit) is considered to be sufficient demonstration of financial disadvantage. Therefore, applicants providing evidence of a Centrelink benefit are NOT required to make an impact statement.

[simpak]

The problem with excluding FTB:A is that you can't get youth allowance if you are dependent and under 18 anymore, you need to get your payment through your FTB.  So I get youth allowance because I am 21.  But my brother gets FTB:A (well my mum does) because he is younger than me...

Idk, we definitely 'deserve' FTB:A in light of the stuff my family has gone through in the past couple of years but my brother is still enrolled in a private school.  I don't think you can claim being "financially disadvantaged" in your every day life like he is via my mum having difficulty paying for groceries/bills or whatever as an excuse for not getting a good ATAR in his case...he doesn't have to spend any time working (doesn't have a part time job) so it doesn't take away from his study and he still goes to a great school which is paid out of investments mostly.  What kind of disadvantagement does he have because of low income at the present time?  I cannot see any.  If you were forced to go to a public school in a low income area or had to work to earn money for your stuff/your family's stuff and it took time away from your studies then yes, I think it's a good idea.  But not in other cases.  They really need to use a personal statement for everyone claiming financial disadvantagement on SEAS or at least a questionnaire or something that shows that their financial situation did disadvantage their studies.

[Greatness]

2smart4u.

I'm not saying they're unfairly getting SEAS, but the fact is that it's blown out of proportion...
And the fact that kids at my school can get FINANCIALLY DISADVANTAGED SEAS is why it's messed up. I'm against that.
And I honestly have no idea how they're eligible for this category, which is why I'm against it.

I understand that yes, there are undoubtedly people who are truly disadvantaged and truly deserve SEAS, but the fact that there are people abusing it is annoying me.


And kezzab, here's my response.

I know that $20,000 isn't child's play. There's plenty of other students at private schools whose parents sacrifice shitloads of things in order to send them there.
I'm not going to lie and say I'm one of them, but I'll tell you this, my parents constantly remind me of the fees they pay for my little brother and me to attend a private school. I know that these fees put a decent amount of pressure on my parents, but it's nothing they can't handle.

I'm gonna go and tell you this.
My parents came over to Australia from Vietnam less than 35 years ago with basically nothing, and now, in 2013, I'm sitting here typing this up.
My parents worked unbelievably hard throughout their lives so that they could get to where they are now.
Both their kids attending a private school, a decent home, decent lives.
All of this after coming to Australia with close to nothing, not even being able to speak English. They attended year 10/11 as soon as they immigrated here.
Decent effort, right? Not bad for beginning with a real disadvantage.

Now it's my turn, and the fact that my parents have spent plenty of money on my school fees to enable me the best possible opportunity to do well at school and then there are those few who exploit the system and gain an advantage that they obviously do not deserve.

I know what a true disadvantage is, and I know that there'll always be others less fortunate than others, and yes, SEAS is a great system with great intentions, but in my opinion, there are still a crapload of things that needs to be changed.

Mate, you're not the only one. My parent's have done similar to yours, we're living well off atm because of their hard work. When I was in high school my parents probably could have paid for me to go to a private school but I decided not to and stay at my public school. My high school is definitely not the worst, does relatively well compared to private schools in my area - but still lacked what private schools offer. However, I do live on acreage property on the mornington peninsula and I felt that was a disadvantage as if I live 5km further down then I would qualify for rural. Also, the year before and the year after I graduated from my high school we were underrepresented, but we weren't in my year.
Honestly, I was really pissed off when I found out I didn't qualify for SEAS but now when I reflect on it, if you're not severely disadvantaged then you don't deserve to get it. But if you can prove in your circumstances that you have been adversely affected by whatever it is then fair enough.
In the end, it's up to you. If you want to get into your course bad enough then you will put in the hard work. You will get the grades required. You will stop making excuses. You will get there. That's how I am where I am today, had I of hesitated and lacked the belief or wanted to make excuses for not getting into my course then I wouldn't have even gotten near the ATAR I achieved. 

[BigAl]

I'm studying in a course whose cut off atar was 93.... I got into it with my atar 88.90. But if I start listing what I went through in y12 you won't even believe me how I got 88.90. SEAS is an appropriate system..if there is anyone saying otherwise, he/she is bullshitting.

[Stick]

Holy cow. I only just realised the commotion I created. I am so sorry for offending so many of you - that was definitely not my intention at all. I was merely saying that I resent those people that manipulate their way to get SEAS. Oh my God I feel terrible about this. Trust my wording to do all this.

[Dedicated]

I wouldn't worry about it. Some people take things too seriously as lack of tone through typing makes things sound worse then they really are.

[Stick]

Doesn't change the fact that I offended people, even if it was unintentional and due to my own carelessness.

Let me make this clear: I am a huge believer in SEAS and the help it provides to those who need it most.

[brenden]

Doesn't change the fact that I offended people, even if it was unintentional and due to my own carelessness.

Let me make this clear: I am a huge believer in SEAS and the help it provides to those who need it most.

It's all good man... People weren't that offended at your post as much as they were others. lol.

[Stick]

I'm still inclined to think otherwise, but thank you so much. :')