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Professor Polonsky

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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 04:01:55 am »
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Smoking anything in general is a poor idea. The amount of damage that tar from either cannabis or tobacco does - or can do - to the body is immense. Cannabis presents another potential danger as there is some evidence to show that it can lead to adverse reactions in those individuals predisposed to schizophrenia and other underlying (and overt) psychological conditions.

As an aside - smoking anything is pretty gross in my opinion. I really can't see the appeal.

I see the difference between alcohol consumption and cannabis consumption as being one of a biological nature. The body can adapt to a degree to a fairly large amount of alcohol consumed over time, in that the liver cells develop more Smooth Endoplasmic Reticuli so as to metabolise the ethanol more quickly. However in the case of smoking cannabis (or anything, really). The residue that is inhaled as smoke - which accumulates as tar - cannot be managed effectively by the body and so presents a greater threat.
Blatantly false.

Yes, it's true that smoking is harmful. However, if you speak to cannabis users, you'll learn that very few of them smoke in quantities large enough regularly for the tar to have any real harmful effects.

Gross is an interesting point, but kinda irrelevant.

Your second point is akin to picking one way in which alcohol is less harmful to your body, and using it as evidence that it is less harmful all together. You might as well do that for heroin, because alcohol is no less dangerous than it.


Anyone who tells you that alcohol is less dangerous than cannabis is either terribly misinformed or just lying to you. Alcohol has an immense cost to our society - completely ignoring the physical effects (which are also worse), just think of the all the drunk drivers, wife-bashers, et cetera. It causes over 3000 deaths in Australia annually, using the most conservative estimates. And costs us over $5 billion (which is more than 2.5 times the annual cost of all illicit drugs combined to society). The Australian Medical Association says that "Alcohol and tobacco are much more damaging than cannabis to public health" and its Victorian state chapter has adopted a policy position calling for the legalisation of cannabis.

You know, the funny thing is that cannabis is probably less dangerous than paracetamol or ibuprofen. Sure, Kingpomba will likely have a fit at me at this point (love you man :P) but go look at statistics relating to fatalities caused by completely legal drugs each year, including those available over the counter. Those studies, of course, aren't prevalent because the pharmaceutical industry doesn't like them. Most drugs which you take will have a rather long and scary list of side effects, much more serious than the one for cannabis. And when you think about it, why should it matter if someone is using a drug recreationally or medicinally? Does it really matter if one is using ibuprofen all the time to deal with their constant back pains, or smokes a joint once a week to help them relax and get through the week?

And this is without even going into why it should be legal regardless of its actual danger, because criminalisation is the worst idea ever.


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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 04:32:32 am »
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 09:11:06 am »
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being srs:
I have nothing against either. I drink when I go out and I don't become some crazy lunatic who gets aggressive and throws plates at bystanders (or do I?)
But there really isn't a difference between alcohol and weed in my opinion. People who smoke weed can do stupid things (I have seen this first hand, listening to the stars in the sky and whatnot) but it doesn't really do much more than calm people down. Alcohol can change people into something they're not, but that depends on the person. Alcohol and Weed as substances are fine, it just depends on who is ingesting them.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 06:40:25 pm »
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Blatantly false.

Yes, it's true that smoking is harmful. However, if you speak to cannabis users, you'll learn that very few of them smoke in quantities large enough regularly for the tar to have any real harmful effects.

Gross is an interesting point, but kinda irrelevant.

Your second point is akin to picking one way in which alcohol is less harmful to your body, and using it as evidence that it is less harmful all together. You might as well do that for heroin, because alcohol is no less dangerous than it.


Anyone who tells you that alcohol is less dangerous than cannabis is either terribly misinformed or just lying to you. Alcohol has an immense cost to our society - completely ignoring the physical effects (which are also worse), just think of the all the drunk drivers, wife-bashers, et cetera. It causes over 3000 deaths in Australia annually, using the most conservative estimates. And costs us over $5 billion (which is more than 2.5 times the annual cost of all illicit drugs combined to society). The Australian Medical Association says that "Alcohol and tobacco are much more damaging than cannabis to public health" and its Victorian state chapter has adopted a policy position calling for the legalisation of cannabis.

You know, the funny thing is that cannabis is probably less dangerous than paracetamol or ibuprofen. Sure, Kingpomba will likely have a fit at me at this point (love you man :P) but go look at statistics relating to fatalities caused by completely legal drugs each year, including those available over the counter. Those studies, of course, aren't prevalent because the pharmaceutical industry doesn't like them. Most drugs which you take will have a rather long and scary list of side effects, much more serious than the one for cannabis. And when you think about it, why should it matter if someone is using a drug recreationally or medicinally? Does it really matter if one is using ibuprofen all the time to deal with their constant back pains, or smokes a joint once a week to help them relax and get through the week?

And this is without even going into why it should be legal regardless of its actual danger, because criminalisation is the worst idea ever.

Blatantly false? Well, no.

Quantity is weird point to bring up when something can be detrimental to health regardless of quantity. Obviously if a person were to smoke large amounts of anything, they'd be doing more damage than if they were to do so with smaller amounts. That isn't to say that they are not doing damage. People smoking any amount of anything are doing damage that, with current medical sciences, is irreparable. According to this study Effects of Smoking Cannabis on Lung Function: Emphysema & Bullous Disease, smoking cannabis can bring about even more damage than usual tobacco, due to "Cannabis smokers tending to hold their breath for up to four-times longer than cigarette smokers, with a nearly 70% increase in inspiratory volume.". In fairness, the paper does mention that tobacco smokers do more immediate damage to lungs and respiratory functions. Cannabis condensates are known to be more mutagenic and cytotoxic (toxic to cells) than tobacco smoke - but the link between cannabis smoking and lung cancer hasn't been definitively proven.

But it's still clear to me that it's a poor idea to smoke anything. I understand why some people smoke cannabis, be it recreationally or because of addiction or otherwise. I still think it's stupid to do so - to interfere with a system as fragile as the respiratory system is a sincerely dumb way of treating the body.

The fact that I find smoking distasteful is not irrelevant in my opinion. If I'm walking behind someone at university and they're chugging down the cigarettes one after the other, I'm in what can be clearly seen as a fairly unfortunate situation. Do you believe that I should have to be subject to that person's second-hand smoke? I'm certainly not interested in developing primary emphysema because of someone else's disgusting habit.

Regarding alcohol; you completely glossed over everything that I said. I never posited that alcohol doesn't have a terrible effect on people, both physiologically and potentially socially/mentally - I clearly noted that the difference that I saw was one of a biological nature. You want to drink? Fine, because unless you have something wrong with your liver, you'll metabolise that eventually. But good luck trying to metabolise smoke tar that's aggregated in your lungs... your body might have the slightest difficulty getting rid of that stuff given its tendency to bioaccumulate.

Saying something like "cannabis is probably less dangerous than paracetamol or ibuprofen" is pretty dumb IMO. Chronic use of anything is going to be bad for you regardless of what it is. And furthermore, "why should it matter if someone is using a drug recreationally or medicinally?" Well, that's pretty simple; because they're drugs. You clearly noted that over-the-counter medications have dangers associated with them - guess what? So do recreational drugs such as cannabis. Drugs shouldn't be taken at all for recreational purposes; they have their specific medical purposes, which are in themselves delegitimised by abuse of that drug/s. Cannabis wouldn't be a heavily controlled substance if there wasn't a good reason for it - if there weren't people who were abusing it regularly and to such a large extent, there'd be no real reason to control it. But, people do - and so it is controlled. It's not like someone woke up one day and went "well fuck, we should ban cannabis!"... I'm 100% sure it was a little more complicated than that.

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criminalisation is the worst idea ever.

Aside from the cost associated with policing and controlling these substances, why?

This is admittedly a bit of a strawman, but why not just decriminalise murder? That should lower the crime rate significantly... Fact is, it's a controlled substance for a reason, being the addictiveness (due to THC) and potential dangers (pulmonary, respiratory and neurologically) associated with it.
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brenden

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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2013, 07:12:24 pm »
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Criminalisation just makes a black market.


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This is admittedly a bit of a strawman, but why not just decriminalise murder? That should lower the crime rate significantly... Fact is, it's a controlled substance for a reason, being the addictiveness (due to THC) and potential dangers (pulmonary, respiratory and neurologically) associated with it.

C'mon alon, I'm disappointed in that suggestion :P. Murder harms other people directly, cannabis only directly harms the individual. Controlled substance - reason being, can't be well monopolised ;)

(okay I'm not a conspiracy theorist... but 'potential dangers' is just silly) -- In a hypothetical situation in which the Govt knew there would be no backlash like there was in the Prohibition - do you think the Govt would make alcohol use illegal because of the potential dangers? I just don't think they would. Alcohol is just more addictive and dangerous than cannabis and worse for society on a whole lol. Cigarettes are more dangerous, even.

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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2013, 07:41:52 pm »
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Criminalisation just makes a black market.

But it also deters people from participating in certain activities. For some substances, this is a good thing.

C'mon alon, I'm disappointed in that suggestion :P.

:D

Murder harms other people directly, cannabis only directly harms the individual. Controlled substance - reason being, can't be well monopolised ;)

(okay I'm not a conspiracy theorist... but 'potential dangers' is just silly) -- In a hypothetical situation in which the Govt knew there would be no backlash like there was in the Prohibition - do you think the Govt would make alcohol use illegal because of the potential dangers? I just don't think they would. Alcohol is just more addictive and dangerous than cannabis and worse for society on a whole lol. Cigarettes are more dangerous, even.

Well first up, I'm sure there are numerous cases where cannabis use has directly impacted upon other people close to the user (be this effect physical or familial etc) - so I'm not sure that this is a sound argument to make. That said, 'decriminalising murder' isn't either, which is why I labelled it a strawman argument.

You're right in saying that controlled substances cannot be well monopolised - and that's kind of the point. If the authorities don't want these substances in the country, criminalising it is a strong deterrent to any casual user (but obviously not to career criminals, which the heart of the issue really) from bringing that substance into said country.

Regarding alcohol, I feel like you're making that point because of the ingrained culture of alcohol in Australia. In a hypothetical situation where cannabis was a large part of Australian culture and alcohol was a controlled substance, the situation would be the same. They are both dangerous substances, but it's far easier to take away an Aussie's weed than his beer, in my opinion :P.

I don't believe that alcohol is more addictive than cannabis; I don't think that alcohol has a dedicated 'addiction agent' (I don't know if there's a proper term for this?) like THC in cannabis, which directly leads to addiction. Again, I'd posit that it's more of a social/cultural thing that leads to heavy drinking. I could be wrong though.

As for your last point; yes cigarettes are even more dangerous. Aside from the dangers presented by tobacco, all the chemicals that end up in cigarettes are never going to do anyone any good physiologically. I certainly recognise the hypocrisy in criminalising cannabis but not cigarettes - but I believe that both substances should be heavily controlled.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2013, 07:57:36 pm »
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But it also deters people from participating in certain activities. For some substances, this is a good thing.


Just saying that if weed or any kind of illegal drug was decriminalised tomorrow I and Im sure many others wont just start doing it.

I seriously doubt "just because its against the law" is a really big reason why people dont know weed and other drugs.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2013, 07:58:19 pm »
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Quote
Well first up, I'm sure there are numerous cases where cannabis use has directly impacted upon other people close to the user (be this effect physical or familial etc) - so I'm not sure that this is a sound argument to make. That said, 'decriminalising murder' isn't either, which is why I labelled it a strawman argument.
Yeah fair enough, I'd count this more as indirect though, or a 'second-hand' effect.

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I don't believe that alcohol is more addictive than cannabis; I don't think that alcohol has a dedicated 'addiction agent' (I don't know if there's a proper term for this?) like THC in cannabis, which directly leads to addiction. Again, I'd posit that it's more of a social/cultural thing that leads to heavy drinking. I could be wrong though.
You can actually die from alcohol withdrawal :P
Is ETOH an addictive agent?
Re: Legalisation of Marijuana please re: y axis.
Also - have you ever heard of a laced joint? It's when bad things go in the paper (other than pot). If it were legalised, there would be less individual harm ;)
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2013, 07:59:31 pm »
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http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0044864

http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/9801/20120508/brain-cannabis-schizophrenia-adolescence.htm

http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/news/heavy-teenage-cannabis-use-linked-anxiety-disorders-late-20s


There is lots of evidence to suggest that heavy cannabis use during adolescence causes problems in later life just like Alcohol does.


I smoked pot once, it wasn't that amazing. Lighting anything on fire and inhaling the smoke from it is going to be a bad idea anyway.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2013, 08:36:49 pm »
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Is ETOH an addictive agent?
Re: Legalisation of Marijuana please re: y axis.

I quote from the paper where that plot comes from:

Participants were asked to score each substance for each of these nine parameters, using a four-point scale, with 0 being no risk, 1 some, 2 moderate, and 3 extreme risk.

<snip>

The number of members taking part in the scoring varied from eight to 16.

Even without discussing the small sample size, the minimum error is for both axis. The relative comparison in that plot has little basis.

Also, the meanings of 'some', 'moderate' and 'extreme' risk are ill defined. These definitions appear subjective, and changes from substance to substance since the participating members change. I am not satisfied by any conclusion the authors have drawn here.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 08:39:32 pm »
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You can actually die from alcohol withdrawal :P
Is ETOH an addictive agent?
Re: Legalisation of Marijuana please re: y axis.
Also - have you ever heard of a laced joint? It's when bad things go in the paper (other than pot). If it were legalised, there would be less individual harm ;)

Yeah, but you can experience severe withdrawal symptoms from many things such as nicotine and caffeine too. Caffeine withdrawal in heavy consumers is particularly nasty, as it can bring about symptoms such as vomiting and nausea as well as sever anxiety. The best bet is for people to not to have any (or as little as possible) of these things. Personally I avoid caffeine because it practically roofies me  :-\

To the best of my knowledge, ethanol itself is not addictive in the same way that THC is (being a psychoactive constituent). I've definitely heard of alcohol dependence, but I'm not sure if this is the same thing as a true, chemical 'addiction'.

Re: the graph; I'd be interested in seeing the data behind it. How is dependence measured? Is this graph based on quantitative, observed data, or is it theoretical based on biochemical interactions? There are a lot of lurking variables and confounding variables apparent with both of these things, so I'm wary about taking its information at face value.

As for the 'laced joint' - I've only ever heard it referred to as a joint consisting of both marijuana and cocaine. Cocaine is horrifically detrimental to pretty much every body system, and I honestly can't imagine a single reason, beyond dependence, why anyone would subject themselves to it.
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 08:41:42 pm »
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Re: the graph; I'd be interested in seeing the data behind it. How is dependence measured? Is this graph based on quantitative, observed data, or is it theoretical based on biochemical interactions? There are a lot of lurking variables and confounding variables apparent with both of these things, so I'm wary about taking its information at face value.
It's based on surveys from a dozen or so 'experts' on a 4-point scale. Statistical averages are taken from integer ratings.

So, your concern is very justified. :P
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Professor Polonsky

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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 01:45:17 am »
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1. Cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, both due to direct physical effects and secondary effects. It also has a much lower health cost to our society. Don't believe me? Read the literature. Anyone who suggests otherwise is lying. "Oh it's bad automatically because it's smoked" makes no sense. And "alcohol is less dangerous because it's not smoked" makes even less sense. Alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis, and that's a fact. You can't spin that in any way.

2. Cannabis is also less dangerous than many medicinal drugs. It doesn't matter whether people are using a drug medicinally or recreationally as long as they get a net benefit out of it. The difference between a medical use and a recreational use is extremely blurry, anyway. Who's to say that a person using ibuprofen to treat their back pain is a medical user, while someone who uses cannabis to get themselves relaxed and helps them to deal with other sorts of pains is a criminal? And let's not even go into "medicines" like Xanax, which pretty much have the same effect as cannabis. One is simply being backed by the pharmaceutical industry (which is one of the biggest evils in the world, but that's another story).

3. Cannabis may as well be less dangerous than fast food. No one is calling to ban that because it's backed by a strong industry. The obesity epidemic is costing far more many lives than cannabis ever will.

4. The War on Drugs has been an absolute failure, and proved that criminalisation does not solve anything (unless your definition of a solution is to fund criminal groups). Legalise soft drugs, treat hard drug users as patients. Medicate them the drug which they're dependent on and withdraw them. Remove all references to drug use from the Crimes Act - it's wrong to treat sick people (i.e. those with an addiction to a hard drug, such as tobacco) as criminals.

I'm being concise here because I need to read a book for school, but if there is any point you disagree with I'm happy to expand upon it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 02:05:11 am by Polonius »

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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 02:41:33 am »
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I see your post breakdown and I raise you another.

So basically, not much actual damage occurs to cannabis users due to inhaling smoke. I think you've made my case pretty well for me.

Or not, given the fact that bioaccumulation of tar from smoked cannabis is equal to or greater than that of cigarette-smokers due to practice. That, and the fact that the brain's area with large to moderate numbers of cannabinoid receptors get majorly fucked with (e.g. cerebellum, hypothalamus, cerebral cortex). I'm not sure if you're familiar with the biological concept of inhibition, but basically these cannabinoids inhibit these receptors specifically in the basal ganglia (relating to control of motion) and the cerebellum (coordination), where neural transmission is adulterated. Cannabis doesn't just give you a high, it lowers your body's motor control - I can't see why anyone would want to put themselves in that situation recreationally. Cannabis has also been demonstrated to have an effect on short-term memory.

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Pretty simple solution, simply regulate where people are allowed to smoke. Washington and Colorado legalised cannabis (yes, it's still illegal under Federal law, but it's not being enforced against users) but they have stricter restrictions than we do on where you can smoke. Pretty much nowhere outside a private residence.

Yeah, I'd be fine with people not smoking anything in public.

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You're somehow trying to draw a non-existing distinction between alcohol and cannabis. Cannabis is less physically harmful than alcohol. Alcohol doesn't just magically disappear, it fucks over your liver. Alcohol has a far greater adverse physical effect than cannabis, that's quite simply a fact which you can't spin.

Alcohol doesn't exactly "fuck over your liver" - the liver does what it's supposed to do; it metabolises the toxins (ethanol etc) and prevents them from doing damage to the body. An excess of alcohol is obviously going to overwhelm the liver and cause some damage, but it's still going to be less that with a substance that the body can't metabolise at all, such as inhaled smoke. That's going to fuck up more than just your liver - personally I'd be pretty uncomfortable with aggregated CO2 floating around my ruptured alveolar sacs. Maybe you're okay with that, but for the life of me I can't imagine why.

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Quote
Saying something like "cannabis is probably less dangerous than paracetamol or ibuprofen" is pretty dumb IMO.
But true

[citation needed]. There's no way to properly qualify or quantify this, as a far larger number of people use (and are therefore susceptible to adverse reactions to) ibuprofen and paracetamol than cannabis. That isn't to say that cannabis, especially smoked, isn't going to have serious negative physiological effects.

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That was convincing ;)


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Why not? If one's recreational use of drugs generates net utility, then it really doesn't make a difference the exact reason why they're using it. It really doesn't matter if it's to treat a back pain or to relax oneself and therefore ease other sorts of pains. Whether something is medicinal or recreational is really just an arbitrary definition - how is xanax medical and cannabis recreational, for example? But in any case, benefit is benefit, and I don't care whether it's some supposedly medical reason or recreationally. They both serve to make someone's life better, I really don't see the difference.

Utility should absolutely not be a factor in drug use. If one needs to relax, there are far better, safer, less physiologically detrimental ways to do so, such as medication and exercise - these probably aren't going to lead to neurological impairment or bioaccumulation of shit in the lungs. Last time I checked, Xanax is pretty heavily controlled. Why? Because it can be dangerous when it's misused, and it certainly is misused. So what exactly is your point here - it just goes to further my argument that recreactional usage of medicinal and/or illicit drugs is a fairly poor idea.

To make a broad, sweeping statement such as "They both serve to make someone's life better" is incorrect. You're choosing to neglect the considerable damage, both physiologically, socially (conflict with family/friends/significant others due to dependence) and economically (wasted man-hours due to infamous stoner non-productivity) that cannabis consumption can cause. Sure, there might be some therapeutic benefit for some people with chronic pain - but that doesn't mean we should decriminalise this substance across the board just because a minority group might derive some non-critical benefit from it. That's an exceedingly poor notion.

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Possibly (even though there is evidence to suggest the decision to ban cannabis was to protect the paper industry from hemp, but that's another story). That doesn't mean it was the right decision.

Yeah, the paper industry did a really good job protecting itself from tablet computers too, hey. Hemp has plenty of practical uses other than paper, and it's not actually illegal at all. There is a house in North Carolina made out of hemp-derived building material. The reason hemp isn't used for paper is that costs a lot more than regular wood-pulp paper to process.

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Because:

(1) Cannabis isn't dangerous enough to warrant criminalisation
(2) Criminalisation puts users at risk, both legally and medically, for no good reason
(3) We lose shitloads of money in potential revenue
(4) By criminalising it, all that you're doing is funding bad people (organised crime, international terrorist groups) as users have to buy it from them

You see, that's the worst thing about our cannabis policy. We don't go after users (because we don't really think it's important enough to, nor do we think they are actually criminals), and yet we don't allow it to be distributed legally - creating a paradox in which we tell them it's okay to buy, but then they have to buy from the bad guys. Well done, world.

1) Yeah it is. Re: detrimental health effects mentioned in this and other posts, severe negative effect on driving ability, severe potential adverse reactions in those predisposed to schizophrenia, anxiety, etc and the list goes on. It's wrong to outright label it as 'harmless'.
2) Not sure how you've arrived at this conclusion? Pls explain further?
3) This is actually a fair point, but slippery slope and all that.
4)Or, you know, users don't have to buy it at all... if someone wants a substance badly enough to buy it from 'outlets' linked to organised crime, then they clearly have dependence issues. See point 1.

We haven't actually said "it's okay to buy" at all - hence criminalisation of the substance itself. Plenty of people are arrested for possession of cannabis.

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Sure, let's do it that way. Coca Cola is very addictive. Coca Cola also contributes to our obesity epidemic. Therefore, we should ban Coca Cola. I can extend this argument to fast-food too, if you'd like. Actually, I'm pretty sure that cannabis is less dangerous than both of them.

You're taking a very wild, knee-jerk interpretation (and a false one, at that) as to what addiction means. Sure, coca-cola and fast food are associated with bad lifestyle habits relation to repetition and other common forms of sedentary lifestyle. However, this does not make them addictive. THC in cannabis is specifically linked to addiction and dependence, rather than simply associated with other lifestyle conditions. This is a very important distinction to make, and the reason why your argument is flawed.

EDIT: You made a whole new post and got rid of the other one?


I'll get to any points I haven't addressed in your new post when I'm more awake.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 02:44:03 am by alondouek »
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Re: Alcohol vs weed
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 03:10:27 am »
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1) Yeah it is. Re: detrimental health effects mentioned in this and other posts, severe negative effect on driving ability, severe potential adverse reactions in those predisposed to schizophrenia, anxiety, etc and the list goes on. It's wrong to outright label it as 'harmless'.
Driving ability? You're seriously contending that cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol for a driver? Also, the latter has not been proven as a direct causality link. Henquet et al. The Environment and Schizophrenia: The role of cannabis use. Schizophrenia Bulletin 2005 Jul ;31(3):608-12

Again, I'm not going to have to argue that alcohol is more dangerous than cannabis when the AMA does that for me. Or just about any comparative study between recreational drugs. And even if I were to concede that cannabis is more physically dangerous, than the secondary effects of alcohol (fights, drink driving, other violence) far outweigh any possible effects of cannabis, both primary and secondary.

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as a far larger number of people use (and are therefore susceptible to adverse reactions to) ibuprofen and paracetamol
That's actually probably not true, especially if you consider worldwide figures rather than limiting your sample to Western countries :P With cannabis having over a 35% lifetime usage rate, it's quite likely it's higher than just about any other drug.

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Utility should absolutely not be a factor in drug use. If one needs to relax, there are far better, safer, less physiologically detrimental ways to do so, such as medication and exercise - these probably aren't going to lead to neurological impairment or bioaccumulation of shit in the lungs. Last time I checked, Xanax is pretty heavily controlled. Why? Because it can be dangerous when it's misused, and it certainly is misused. So what exactly is your point here - it just goes to further my argument that recreactional usage of medicinal and/or illicit drugs is a fairly poor idea.

To make a broad, sweeping statement such as "They both serve to make someone's life better" is incorrect. You're choosing to neglect the considerable damage, both physiologically, socially (conflict with family/friends/significant others due to dependence) and economically (wasted man-hours due to infamous stoner non-productivity) that cannabis consumption can cause. Sure, there might be some therapeutic benefit for some people with chronic pain - but that doesn't mean we should decriminalise this substance across the board just because a minority group might derive some non-critical benefit from it. That's an exceedingly poor notion.
Medication which could potentially be more dangerous than cannabis? Xanax is far more dangerous than cannabis, though. That's what you're ignoring.

I still object to any serious physiological damage being done by cannabis. Social harm is at least as high with alcohol. Actually, scratch that, there is no way in the world that alcohol has a lesser potential for social harm than cannabis. Cannabis is far less addictive, has benign behavioural effects (as opposed to alcohol...) and a casual user can even very easily hide its usage from friends/family if they are concerned (which they shouldn't be). Oh, and that's just a false stigma. Cannabis users are no less productive than the general population. Ask Bill Clinton. The high doesn't last for longer than a few hours with cannabis, so unless you are completely dependent on it (highly unlikely), there won't be a significant adverse impact on your productivity. Most cannabis users use the drug once a week, at most. You're treating cannabis users as some subset of the population which is fucked up - whereas over a fifth of Australians have used it in the past year. I even read a paper some time (can't find it now) which suggested that there is absolutely no correlation between occupation/salary and cannabis usage, with academia having a really high usage rate if I remember correctly.

60% of overdose deaths in the US are medicinal drugs, by the way. 1 2

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2) Not sure how you've arrived at this conclusion? Pls explain further?
3) This is actually a fair point, but slippery slope and all that.
4)Or, you know, users don't have to buy it at all... if someone wants a substance badly enough to buy it from 'outlets' linked to organised crime, then they clearly have dependence issues. See point 1.

We haven't actually said "it's okay to buy" at all - hence criminalisation of the substance itself. Plenty of people are arrested for possession of cannabis.
2. A regulated drug is safer than an unregulated one.
4. Users will buy cannabis whether you like it or not. At least stop them from funding organised crime.

People being arrested for cannabis use? In Victoria? Hahahahahahahah.

A bit all over the place, but there.