Being religious in todays society

[12AM]

Would you look at someone strangely if they were talking to an imaginary friend?

[alondouek]

I'd like to know more about this?

It's a little tricky to explain . In Judaism, God is not considered an earthly concept, let alone a 'being'. It's a little difficult to describe, because we consider God to either 'exist' in a reality separate to our own, or outside of reality itself. There are a number of Middle-Ages Kabbalistic writings that ponder the nature of reality in the context of God - essentially (and I'm editorialising for the sake of brevity) one of the questions it poses is that if God is the 'supreme notion' then by proxy, the medium in which God 'exists' - which we consider to be beyond earthly understanding and the human perception of what is - is the true reality. As such, what are we experiencing right now? How do we explain reality when it is held up to the concept of God?

As you can see, Kabbalistic thought delves very much into the metaphysical (spiritual texts such as the Zohar expound upon this). Here is the wikipedia article of the Zohar; it contains thought and concepts that I, personally, find magnificent.


On a side note, concepts like this demonstrate some interesting divergences between Semitic religions like Judaism and Christianity: Christians (or so I understand it) believe that Jesus was the earthly manifestation of the divine spirit - but this is incompatible with the Jewish notion of divine perfection (which states that God cannot be remotely Earthly as per the assumed 'nature' of God). A further distinction is the Christian notion of good and evil versus the Jewish interpretation; in Christianity, Satan is the diametric opposite of God's divinity, and has control over 'hell'. Conversely in Judaism, Satan/Sataniel is simply another angel who embodies temptation and brings forth the sins of one's life in the Heavenly Court (it is vital to understand that in Judaism, angels have no free will whatsoever; hence, 'Satan' cannot embody what is not a Godly concept - i.e. evil is simply part of the reality we exist in). Judaism also has no concept of hell.

A further area of extreme interest is the concept of Free Will in Judaism. As God is considered omnipotent, how is it that humanity can have free will? Here is one of the Judaic explanations.

[Professor Polonsky]

I also believe that the most damaging people to any religion are the zealous, ultra-religious factions or individuals. In Judaism, many of the Ultra-Orthodox communities isolate themselves from the outside world, they (in my opinion) mistreat their women and they are often radical. This is an example of the radical ultra-religious groups I'm talking about.. These people do, and will do, so much more damage to religion that any atheist could - they denigrate their religion in the eyes of God, other less radical members of their religion, and the general population.

To be honest, I'd refer to the entire Haredi community as a dangerous cult. The Sikrikim might be particularly offensive, but that whole population has no place in today's society.

[JellyDonut]

Have any other religious people faced these problems? How do you handle it? Any opinions on how to handle it? 

it's p easy bro. just transcend this illusory world which involves replying in non-sequiturs while giving meaningful looks

[slothpomba]

I would like to start off by saying please don't turn this into a debate over religions, bag peoples beliefs, or argue against religion all together or try to disprove it, there are other threads for that, and if not, make one.

Here's hoping.

People always come up to me and say that "religion is stupid" and "haha there is no god youre an idiot" etc.

We just call those people assholes. If you know them, dont hang around them if they cant tolerate an important part of what makes you....you. If you don't know them, ignore them or tell them to mind their own #$@!@# business.

I don't care if they have their own beliefs, that's fine, but whenever arguments erupt at school or something if you have a religion or if you're religious, everyone ostracizes you and you're treated like a leper. 

It's just people being people. In some places, being an atheist will get you that. In other places, being on the left of politics or the right of politics (in a university especially) might just get you that.

People always preach tolerance to gays and different races (me too) but how come if everyone promotes being politically correct for all those things, religion some how doesn't count?

Probably because people see it as a choice and in most peoples minds, a free choice is fair game.

  but if you choose to believe in a higher power and practice that belief, a right every Australian has, society ostracizes you.

I don't know if this is true, it may *feel* true but whether it is actually true of wider Australian society is another thing. We're largely a secular (note, not atheistic necessarily) bunch. We're also in some ways a private bunch, this is just one thing that stays in the private sphere, thats the feel i get out of it in Australian society anyway. A lot of people are fine with you practicing x but dont wake them up on a sunday and bash on their door or talk about it over the water-cooler.

Also note a lot of people can be massive dicks in highschool. I was an atheist, as in identified as one, ever since about year 7 or 8 but i was a bit of a dick about it. If you asked me to give a really rigorous (or even half decent) philosophical defense of it though, i could not pull it off for the life of me. This may be true of a lot of kids in highschool, for beliefs in anything (not just religion).

[Yitzi_K]

but that whole population has no place in today's society.

True, but that's more of a reflection on today's society than the Chareidim.

[alondouek]

True, but that's more of a reflection on today's society than the Chareidim.

Hugely disagree. A lot of the way that chareidi populations around the world (i.e. Meah Shearim, Brooklyn, Melbourne) behave is incompatible with the egalitarianism and progressive morality of modern society. No-one (or at least no reasonable person) minds if chareidim practice their form of Judaism, but people outside the community shouldn't have to suffer as a result of it (e.g. throwing stones at cars on Shabbat in Meah Shearim, the whole Beit Shemesh girl's school fiasco, covering up of sexual abuse within the community etc. etc.)

All of these things are an indictment on vocal, extremist groups of chareidim, not on modern society in the slightest.

[Thu Thu Train]

True, but that's more of a reflection on today's society than the Chareidim.

OH MY GOD YOU'RE BACK.

[enwiabe]

True, but that's more of a reflection on today's society than the Chareidim.

Welcome back!

[Professor Polonsky]

True, but that's more of a reflection on today's society than the Chareidim.

Yitzi's world, or where it's society's fault for not accommodating religious fanatics.

[Yitzi_K]

Yitzi's world, or where it's society's fault for not accommodating religious fanatics.

"Society" today believes in moral decadence and hedonistic indulgence, whereas Chareidim believe in devoting every facet of one's life to the One who gives us life. Those are certainly incompatible, but I know which group I prefer to be in.
As for the crazies who throw stones and spit at girls, they are just that - crazies. Not one single legitimate Charedi halachic authority gives them any backing, so using them to judge Charedi society is much like saying that all of Australia has no place in today's society because of the 4 idiots on Facebook who posted stuff about Ed Husic swearing on the koran.

Oh, and hello enwiabe, I'm at home now for a while so I thought I'd come and stir up some trouble 

[Thu Thu Train]

"Society" today believes in moral decadence and hedonistic indulgence, whereas Chareidim believe in devoting every facet of one's life to the One who gives us life. Those are certainly incompatible, but I know which group I prefer to be in.
As for the crazies who throw stones and spit at girls, they are just that - crazies. Not one single legitimate Charedi halachic authority gives them any backing, so using them to judge Charedi society is much like saying that all of Australia has no place in today's society because of the 4 idiots on Facebook who posted stuff about Ed Husic swearing on the koran.

Oh, and hello enwiabe, I'm at home now for a while so I thought I'd come and stir up some trouble 

Can you give examples of 'moral decadence' and 'hedonistic indulgence'. I'd say that Society believes in freedom of being and religion/rules in 3000 year old book shouldn't dictate what people do with their bodies. Do you mean that things like Alcohol and Strip Clubs and societies love of casual drug use as decadence? I would argue against that. People are free to do what they want with their bodies. and that moral decadence is objective and depends on the person who is deciding what is decandece nad what is not. If I want to ingest alcohol in my body I'm not going to listen to a 3000 year old book which says not to. It is my choice and the new testament pretty much ruins the torah.

[pterozachtyl]

I go to a Catholic school in rural Victoria, and people get made fun of for openly believing in God. It's strange, considering the nature of the school, but a majority (probably 80%) of my fellow students are either atheists or agnostics.

[Yitzi_K]

People are free to do what they want with their bodies.

Incorrect. G-d gave us our bodies, and He will take them away from us, and in the meantime He has given us specific instructions as to how to use them. Just remember, G-d gives you the ability to walk. Tomorrow, He may deny you that ability.

[enwiabe]

Incorrect. G-d gave us our bodies, and He will take them away from us, and in the meantime He has given us specific instructions as to how to use them. Just remember, G-d gives you the ability to walk. Tomorrow, He may deny you that ability.

I find it gravely offensive that you assume this "G-d" character (what a pretentious name, too, what is he? voldemort?) gave me my body. It is a simple fact in my mind that the magical jellyfish at the bottom of the volcano that destroyed Pompeii gave me my body. How dare you simply assume!