Being religious in todays society

[Thu Thu Train]

Incorrect. G-d gave us our bodies, and He will take them away from us, and in the meantime He has given us specific instructions as to how to use them. Just remember, G-d gives you the ability to walk. Tomorrow, He may deny you that ability.

He gave nature the ability to create and form a body for us. Do you believe he sits around all day and gives us every new fertilised egg a body? If God exists I don't think he has a lot of involvement in our day to day lives. We are free to choose what we do with our bodies which is why he has given us the choice to live our lives as we please. He isn't going to just take away someone's ability to walk because they drank or smoked or didn't look both ways when they crossed the road.

[Yitzi_K]

Do you believe he sits around all day and gives us every new fertilised egg a body?

Yes. Nothing exists or happened without His direct involvement. Every time you draw breath, it's because G-d enabled you to draw that breath, independent of any other breath you ever drew.

[alondouek]

Every time you draw breath, it's because G-d enabled you to draw that breath, independent of any other breath you ever drew.

>Muscular contractions expand chest cavity
>Pressure difference created between external environment and chest cavity
>Air flows into lungs to achieve equilibrium
>Equilibrium shift leads to expulsion of air/CO₂
>Cycle repeats

i.e. completely dependent on "any other breath", notably absent of direct deistic influence.

Scienced.

As a Modern Orthodox Jew, you're making us look bad. It's ridiculous to pin everything down as 'God this' or 'God that'.

[enwiabe]

>Muscular contractions expand chest cavity
>Pressure difference created between external environment and chest cavity
>Air flows into lungs to achieve equilibrium
>Equilibrium shift leads to expulsion of air/CO₂
>Cycle repeats

i.e. completely dependent on "any other breath", notably absent of direct deistic influence.

Scienced.

As a Modern Orthodox Jew, you're making us look bad. It's ridiculous to pin everything down as 'God this' or 'God that'.

You should get Yitzi to tell you about how the Toi-reh is the only science textbook anyone needs and has every Scientific theory contained within it!

[Yitzi_K]

As a Modern Orthodox Jew, you're making us look bad. It's ridiculous to pin everything down as 'God this' or 'God that'.

I'm afraid if you don't believe what I wrote that would make you a kofer ba'ikar. The gemara says (I forget where, I can find it for you if you want) that 'a person does not bend his finger down below unless it was decreed upon him from above'.

[Yitzi_K]

You should get Yitzi to tell you about how the Toi-reh is the only science textbook anyone needs and has every Scientific theory contained within it!

It's not me, it's the Ramban (hakdamah to peirush al ha'Torah) and the Vilna Gaon (peirush to Sifra de'tzniusa ch.5) among others.

[alondouek]

I'm afraid if you don't believe what I wrote that would make you a kofer ba'ikar. The gemara says (I forget where, I can find it for you if you want) that 'a person does not bend his finger down below unless it was decreed upon him from above'.

I assume you're talking about 'ein adam kofef ezbah, ele im ken machrizim alav min hashamayim'? That's just another example of a rabbinic means of suppression of the population.

You are ultimately advocating that there is no בחירה חפשית (free will, for those who are confused) and that everything is predetermined? So you are contesting the opinions of Saadia Gaon in the אמונות ודעות, the Ralbag and Yehuda HaLevi, Yeshaya Horowitz and the Rabad - which really doesn't put you in a good position for argument.

There's really no use trying to throw rabbinic sources at my when I can do exactly the same. Come back with some empirical evidence (or actual points of discussion at the very least) and we can talk. Until then, consider laying off the fundamentalist polemics.

[enwiabe]

It's not me, it's the Ramban (hakdamah to peirush al ha'Torah) and the Vilna Gaon (peirush to Sifra de'tzniusa ch.5) among others.

If only I could bring myself to let bronze age philosophers dictate my life. It'd be so simple. I'd just follow every little thing they told me to do! I wish I didn't know how to think for myself.

[Thu Thu Train]

I'm afraid if you don't believe what I wrote that would make you a kofer ba'ikar. The gemara says (I forget where, I can find it for you if you want) that 'a person does not bend his finger down below unless it was decreed upon him from above'.

So a person does not drink alcohol or indulge in sinful acts unless decreed upon by God?


You're also saying that people have no free will? I don't understand how you can argue society is self-indulgent when it is willed upon us by God to be self-indulgent according to your arguments that nothing happens without involvement from God.

[Lolly]

*grabs popcorn*

[Thu Thu Train]

*grabs popcorn*

well what does philosophy say about free will?!?!?!?!

[pterozachtyl]

>Muscular contractions expand chest cavity
>Pressure difference created between external environment and chest cavity
>Air flows into lungs to achieve equilibrium
>Equilibrium shift leads to expulsion of air/CO₂
>Cycle repeats

i.e. completely dependent on "any other breath", notably absent of direct deistic influence.

Scienced.

As a Modern Orthodox Jew, you're making us look bad. It's ridiculous to pin everything down as 'God this' or 'God that'.

This is my favourite thing I have ever seen on this site. *claps*

[Yitzi_K]

So a person does not drink alcohol or indulge in sinful acts unless decreed upon by God?


You're also saying that people have no free will? I don't understand how you can argue society is self-indulgent when it is willed upon us by God to be self-indulgent according to your arguments that nothing happens without involvement from God.

No I'm not saying we don't have free will. Of course we have free will. The question of how can it be that G-d is in control of everything and knows the future and we can also have free will has been addressed by scholars through the ages and is way beyond the scope of an internet discussion.

This is my favourite thing I have ever seen on this site. *claps*

He didn't actually prove anything. True, that's the way breathing works. But it only works because G-d makes it work, if He chose not to for even one moment the process would simply... stop.

[EvangelionZeta]

well what does philosophy say about free will?!?!?!?!

I'd say the consensus tends to lean towards it not existing in any meaningful sense, actually...

[Lolly]

I'd say the consensus tends to lean towards it not existing in any meaningful sense, actually...

 Actually I think that autonomy and determinism can paradoxically coexist.