Group of Eight debates university entry level lift

[pi]

http://www.afr.com/p/national/education/group_of_eight_debates_university_J3PbEfnmc3mkLDIRdRsazJ

Thoughts?

[Professor Polonsky]

This would mostly affect those eligible for SEAS (i.e. low SES background)? Because I'd imagine there aren't many Go8 courses with an ATAR below 60.

[MJRomeo81]

First off, sweet post count: http://i.imgur.com/hU3qzUo.png

Not sure on this idea. Is there something wrong with people who score below 60 ATAR? If so, then why are these students getting degrees in the first place?

Unis need to look at themselves in the mirror. Too many sloppy courses. Too many lazy lecturers who have taught from the same syllabus for the last ten years. In some institutions, extremely low standards.

[DisaFear]

First off, sweet post count: http://i.imgur.com/hU3qzUo.png

I swear he had that this morning too. Must be deleting old posts to keep it at that

[alondouek]

I can see the rationale behind it, and there are certainly some possible positive outcomes such as a higher median ATAR for tertiary entry, greater incentivisation to achieve good marks at school, potentially smaller class sizes in universities etc

BUT I'm not comfortable with it for a number of reasons:
- it makes it more difficult for some from disadvantaged backgrounds to obtain tertiary education from a prestigious university
- it negates the intended effect of SEAS somewhat

and other reasons that don't come to mind right now.

However, this wouldn't be a problem if the government hadn't cut one level of education to allocate more funds to another. Surely there were better areas who could weather cuts in a more efficient manner? The mining industry comes to mind as an alternative.

[mark_alec]

I am all for universities to be elite institutions and *not* intended for everyone.

[ShortBlackChick]

I'm pretty sure Monash has a minimum of 70 anyway?

[Lasercookie]

Is this much of a change? I don't know about all of the group of 8 courses offered, but don't most of them already have courses with ATAR requirements over 60? Some also state on their website a minimum ATAR requirement for all their courses e.g. Monash has "For courses that do not provide a 'Clearly In' ATAR applicants should note that all bachelor level programs have a minimum requirement of an ATAR of 70 or equivalent. Some programs may have a higher requirement."  http://www.adm.monash.edu.au/admissions/undergrad/entry-requirements/year-12.html

Just at a glance for the other group of 8 uni's (ignoring courses that use a range of criteria and don't have a cut-off listed):

http://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/entry-requirements/undergraduate-domestic (all the bachelor degrees have cut-offs that are 70 or above)

University of Sydney, UNSW, ANU: http://www.uac.edu.au/documents/atar/2013-main-cutoffs.pdf
- ANU's cutoffs are all 80 and above
- usyd seems to be 70 and above
- UNSW is also 70+

University of Western Australia: http://www.tisc.edu.au/static-fixed/statistics/cutoff-ranks/2013-cutoffs-uwa.pdf
- Courses that are 80 and above

Adelaide seems to be 65 and above http://www.adelaide.edu.au/publications/pdfs/fast-facts.pdf

UQ seems to be 65 and above for their bachelor degrees http://www.qtac.edu.au/Courses/January2013cutoffs.html#uq

[ShortBlackChick]

Yeah what he said ^

[mark_alec]

The Go8 was proposing the >60 cut-off for *all* universities, not just their own.

[Lasercookie]

The Go8 was proposing the >60 cut-off for *all* universities, not just their own.

Ahh, that makes more sense then.

[Professor Polonsky]

That would likely kill off the bottom unis. Whether or not this is a good thing is up for debate.

[Hancock]

Honestly, I think that the reputation / effort ratio of teaching as a profession is way off. After tutoring for the last 2 years, I understand that controlling a class of 30 students is by no means an easy task to do every day. On the other hand, I do believe that standards of teachers should increase, and an ATAR restriction is one way to do it even though ATARs aren't meant to be seen as an intelligence marker.

[pi]

First off, sweet post count: http://i.imgur.com/hU3qzUo.png

off-topic

Now it's cooler

Posts 11111, Respect +1111, Grad year '11. OH YEAH

[golden]

off-topic

Now it's cooler

Posts 11111, Respect +1111, Grad year '11. OH YEAH

Grr and your post rate was above 10/day. If only it were 11.