anyone saw the liberal "Rudd's Record" ad?

[pi]

I don't think Tony Abbott not being able to describe cloud formation is the *best* example of him not being suitable to be Prime Minister.

[vox nihili]

I still don't think I could count that as a gaffe. Is a cloud gas, or water in a near-vapour state? Regardless, it's definitely very low on the scale of dumb things politicians have done in recent times.

e.g. Jaymes Diaz, Craig Thomson, the entire One Nation party.

Those three are infinitely more stupid than Tony Abbott. Fair enough, it isn't the most definite example of a lack of scientific credentials, but he's consistently shown that he's woefully unaware about certain areas.

Rather than rattling off more cloud examples, and digging myself a hole, enjoy some comedic relief: http://www.youtube.com/user/phonytonyabbott

I get that gaffes don't define a leader, nor a person. We're all pretty smart people, yet we all say incredibly stupid things from time to time. It's just when the policy and the rhetoric reflects that lack of understanding.

[alondouek]

Yep, I'd say those are all fair evaluations.

Regarding

Those three are infinitely more stupid than Tony Abbott. Fair enough, it isn't the most definite example of a lack of scientific credentials, but he's consistently shown that he's woefully unaware about certain areas.

This is why I see voting as voting for a party. I'd see a best-case scenario as Turnbull as PM, but it's irrelevant. We vote for the party that we believe to have the best policies and the best means to manage and ensure the country's future.

Also, we should all be glad that every party has a Whip e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MSScBIopM8

[vox nihili]

This is why I see voting as voting for a party. I'd see a best-case scenario as Turnbull as PM, but it's irrelevant. We vote for the party that we believe to have the best policies and the best means to manage and ensure the country's future.

Also, we should all be glad that every party has a Whip e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MSScBIopM8

It's sad that we're edging away from this. Not just as a public, but the parties as well. The election is a contest between Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott...odd really that we keep saying this when as you've rightly said isn't the case. Unfortunately, leaders tend to be able to dictate a hell of a lot of the policy. Would be better with more collaboration!

[appianway]

I think we overestimate how much the leaders actually have to say on policy. A lot of it is public sentiment (or the sentiment of their supporters). A lot of it is unions or lobbies. A lot of it is the rest of the party. A lot of it is the ministers. A lot of it is the political advisers and so on. I'm not basing my (currently undecided) vote on my opinions of the leaders, because I think that they're really the posterboys and that a lot of the policy comes from deeper in the party.