Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread

[JellyDonut]

How are we defining left/right?

[ninwa]

simpak even though my views are like diametrically different from yours I just wanted to say I really appreciate how polite and calm you're being

[Professor Polonsky]

That wasn't meant to be a stab at you... I'm suddenly feeling like this is turning from a simple debate to something a lot more hostile.  To me, Nina's hard evidence with links and quotes seemed more compelling.  I used the term current priority because they had stated it's not a priority for them and it had been reported in the media, admittedly a poor source for the most part.  Your argument, which poked fun at their policy booklet in a biased manner, probably isn't going to swing me when I'm already aligning my views with the party you're making fun of.  If you're trying to make a point and potentially sway someone or change an opinion, you've got to know who you're selling it to.  I'm the wrong audience for that kind of thing.  Or maybe that's not what you're trying to do at all and rather than inform and change opinions you're actually just trying to 'win' this mini-debate.  Which isn't the point for me.

Real Solutions is laughable, whether you are generally aligned with the Libs or not. The 40-page booklet mostly contains your usual election crap ("this election is the most important one 4eva!") and a lot of unimplementable, unworkable policies, probably taken out of some right-wing kid's fantasyland (privatising state schools). When contrasted with Labor's national platform, it's quite clearly nothing but a joke next to it.

But really, that was just a friendly jab. The issue at matter was that the Libs are opposed to same-sex marriage. That they are, and have made it clear just last year when the vote in Parliament on SSM was held. They have never done anything to suggest that position is reversed; and in fact during the first debate Abbott declined to even say he'll give his party members a conscious vote on the issue.

When in the past x years has abortion been a hot topic!  It hasn't, in Australia!  If the Coalition wants to be neutral on an issue which frankly isn't going to win or lose them many votes at all then I really don't see a problem.  I'm voting based on what is in front of me, I'm not going to speculate about what may or may not happen in terms of /party/ (not Abbott) position on abortion after the election because that's speculation and why would I vote based on speculation when I can vote based on explicitly proposed policy?

What explicitly proposed policy? It's no coincidence they've hushed it down, because their views are incompatible with the median voter's. It's no secret there's a very large Catholic/Christian faction in the Liberal Party, which is opposed to abortion. Do you honestly believe Abbott and his likes wouldn't restrict abortion if they had the chance to? He tried in the past already. Just because he said he won't campaigning in the run-up to an election doesn't mean anything.

How are we defining left/right?

Damn good question. For me, all three big parties are right-wing. (Economically, at least.) Before Reaganomics, they'd have all been considered far-right on the spectrum.

[enwiabe]

why i'm voting labor:

1) nbn
2) abbott
3) disability care
4) carbon pricing
5) the labor government's excellent handling of the gfc
6) the liberal party is going to cut $4.5bn from our $5.7bn foreign aid budget. enough said. what a pack of heartless dicks. this point is actually more important than the totality of points 1)-5). it makes me sick to think that we would be so isolationist as annihilate foreign aid. take a good hard look at yourself, australia. fuck.
7) (as an afterthought) if I wanted austerity, i'd move to greece

[simpak]

Okay guys I'm on my phone in bed now haha! And considering trying to quote like Polonium confused me enough on computer I will just direct my responses to people in a nonquoted fashion.

@Polonium, now that you're explaining why you dislike the booklet I have more respect for your comments, I agree because when I read it I thought it was stupidly done.  In light of our discussion I agree with what you've said re: Coalition and gay marriage.
When I said explicitly formed policy, I didn't mean abortion policy as I don't think one currently exists. Or any kind of movement to make a change currently exists. I meant, when you can base a vote on what a party has proposed explicitly in any area, be it economy, gay marriage, disability or whatever it is then that's a better thing to use to inform your vote at the present time. At least in comparison to fears for what may or may not occur in the future. I'm not sure they will be given the chance to, depending on not only the outcome of the election in the house, but also in the senate. I'd hope that if they tried, measures would be put in place to reverse restrictions or prevent them, but again there hasn't been any talk of that for a while.

To me, the Liberal party cannot be as economically or socially right when compared to the American right no matter how you define right. If i had to put the liberal Party on a scale they would be positioned to the right, but obviously there is a continuum and I wouldn't place them as close to the end as the American right. It's up to others to disagree and I'm sure it depends on how much emphasis you place on different aspects of right mentality too.

@nina. I hope I am being calm haha! The point of participating in this thread and discussion for me is not to yell about my views to anyone but rather engage in civil chat, understand what other people have to say and then use the information they give me to reevaluate my own opinions and learn more about how to define my views. I think it's really important to respect the opinions of everyone else, no matter how I feel about them.

If anyone feels I have offended you, since I know my views differ from most here, I apologise! Hopefully we can continue to engage in a friendly way despite any differences in opinion

[Russ]

I have a bridge to sell anybody who thinks the Coalition will legislate for same sex marriage within the next three terms.

[ninwa]

ouch, lol

[vox nihili]

Polonium: there is influence from the leader but the leader does not make sole decisions. 

The fact that Tony Abbott currently leads the Liberal party is an acknowledgement of the conservative nature of the current Liberal-National coalition. They've very much leaved Liberal behind and chased conservative in its stead. Something that Malcolm Fraser has been extremely critical about.

[slothpomba]

I had to do an assignment where i looked into the history of the Liberal and Labor movements (i got some books for anyyone interested) and the Liberals really have shifted somewhat from their historical position of liberalism. I think Howard said it best "I see no contradiction between being an Economic Liberal and a Social Conservative". More than any other sentence i think  it encapsulates what the majority of the modern Liberal party is like. Economic liberals supporting the free market, deregulation, low government intervention and cuts. The social conservative tag is self explanatory. It's another question all together whether it is contradictory though...

Don't forget that the ALP wanted to filter the fucking internet as well and make it neither opt-out nor opt-in. Where was all the outrage then? Both parties are as bad as each other and anyone who puts LNP or ALP first on their ballot is a fucking moron.

Which only makes you hypocritical to criticise them if you're voting for ALP or Libs..... That and Labor's policy is long dead, there was a few hours there where it looked like this was alive and kicking so i think everyone justifiably lost their shit for a bit.

First result when you google "tony abbott stem cell research" http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abbott-turns-on-liberals-in-stem-cell-debate/2006/08/29/1156816901021.html

2006?!? I'm on your side but that's a bit outdated, the democrats still had senators according to the article. I reckon the political vibe has moved on since (not that many people probably give a toss about this issue). Back then Labor didn't even say much about marriage equality.

How are we defining left/right?

Based on where people sat after the French revolution i spose :p

[thushan]

Abbott practically set to win the election, according to exit poll.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/federal-election-2013-live-coverage-and-results-20130907-2tbd0.html?rand=1378508467540#post_live_74088

[MJRomeo81]

Even sportsbet paid out early.

[pi]

Team Abbott <3 Voting for more internships yeahhhh!

[slothpomba]

Even sportsbet paid out early.

Even?!? Clearly not much of a better :p. They do this fairly often even for large sports events. Generate publicity and maybe catch a few people to jump on the betting train again.

Which channel we all using?

[simpak]

What's a channel?  INTERNET FTW.
I'll be using twitter, where you see it first.

[Lolly]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/?WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=Corp_News-Elections-Federal-2013_AdWords_:australian%20elections%202013_e_g_34548144799_&gclid=CK64q73zuLkCFQMwpAod5hgAGQ