Login

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

May 17, 2025, 02:05:52 am

Author Topic: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread  (Read 98230 times)  Share 

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

charmanderp

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3209
  • Respect: +305
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #375 on: September 08, 2013, 04:30:22 pm »
0
Yeah - I'm guilty of being one of those. I should have put in an informal vote haha.
This is literally the worst thing anyone can do. With all due respect T, people who invalidate their vote irritate me more than people who vote in opposition to me! We're so blessed to live in a true democracy and won where we're all free to vote based upon conscience, as opposed to corrupted systems all over the world. For hundreds of years people have died for the right to vote and be recognised as having a say in democracy.

So many people consider voting to be a dispensable right and complain about having to go out on one Saturday a trice-year, citing disillusionment for the reasoning behind having no interest in participating when really it's a matter or personal disengagement and a lack of effort. So much more worthwhile just to go out there, find the relevant sources on policy, economics, etc and make an informed decision! The right to vote is a privilege, and we should treat it as such.

With regards to the LNP passing progressive social reforms, where on earth does one obtain evidence suggesting that will happen? They've blocked almost all movement by the ALP/Green on such reforms such as same-sex marriage, with promises even to exacerbate social apartheid through other policies of discriminatory nature. Abbott is considered by even most conservative commentators to be the most conservative PM in a long time. As is most of his staff.

I'm expecting nothing more from this government than a heap of backwards economic management in arbitrary attempts for a symbolic surplus (how's that for alliteration?) and frivolous movements on infrastructure. Hoping the LNP can put aside their hubris and concede that the ALP's internet is immensely superior and implement it. Also genuinely fearful as to what they'll do regarding climate change reforms/carbon tax.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 04:35:21 pm by charmanderp »
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Arts majoring in English, Economics and International Studies (2013 onwards)

thushan

  • ATAR Notes Lecturer
  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4959
  • Respect: +626
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #376 on: September 08, 2013, 05:07:34 pm »
0
This is literally the worst thing anyone can do. With all due respect T, people who invalidate their vote irritate me more than people who vote in opposition to me! We're so blessed to live in a true democracy and won where we're all free to vote based upon conscience, as opposed to corrupted systems all over the world. For hundreds of years people have died for the right to vote and be recognised as having a say in democracy.

So many people consider voting to be a dispensable right and complain about having to go out on one Saturday a trice-year, citing disillusionment for the reasoning behind having no interest in participating when really it's a matter or personal disengagement and a lack of effort. So much more worthwhile just to go out there, find the relevant sources on policy, economics, etc and make an informed decision! The right to vote is a privilege, and we should treat it as such.

I partially disagree. It's the option of having a say, not being forced to have a say when you are aware that you don't know about the issues, that's important.

And not everyone who doesn't want to vote is just "disillusioned" or "ceebs". Personally, I've been going out of my way to read and understand policy and economics. But my knowledge and understanding of these two is severely limited, try as I might. As I read here on AN in this megathread, I realise that I have nfi what goes on. I read about the likes of kingpomba and mao saying this, that and the other and I'm like wtf do these mean, wtf could be the implications of such a policy? Sure, I can form my own theories, and that's what they are, just theories. May be right, may be wrong. Sure, I can go out of my way to fully understand the ins and outs of economics and policy, but I have other things to do - such as try and pass my degree for god's sake.

So come election, I was like - shit. I don't have a full understanding of all the policies involved. For instance, my understanding of the rationale behind the implementation of the NBN is that it is more an investment rather than an expense since it could potentially increase productivity. That's a pretty superficial understanding. I don't know, for instance, how much productivity is dependent on faster internet speeds, what the chances are of long term benefits matching costs, etc. Also, in terms of managing the economy - I don't know exactly what the state of the economy is, what Australia will rely on for its economic growth, etc. And I'm no macroeconomist.

How do I also know that I am perhaps not the best person to decide who should form government? Just a cursory look at this thread makes me realise my understanding of the issues is very, very minimal and it's very easy to feel stupid here.

What I can understand better is social policy, such as gay marriage. But should I really cast my vote on that one issue, potentially ignoring what may or may not be sound economic policy by the Coalition, hoping that in the future gay marriage could be legalised by a change in government or a change in attitudes in the future? I think not.

And the asylum seekers. What are the politicians' motives? To pander to the wishes of the populace? Or to deliver a sound and measured policy that takes into account all factors including humanitarian obligations, diplomatic relations, trying to balance the budget, the fraction of the asylum seekers that are economic migrants and the implications it could have on economic migrants who arrive by other means? How would I know which policy is the most sound? I don't have the facts on the table to make an informed judgement.

So all in all - I think having the option of saying "this is the government I want" is really good. I also think though that there should be the option for those who realise that they are not the best people to decide which party should form government to not vote.

Oh on another note...it's scary to express one's political opinion unless it's ultra left wing because one would be worried about being seen as a horrible person/monster/a-hole etc.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 05:18:57 pm by thushan »
Managing Director  and Senior Content Developer - Decode Publishing (2020+)
http://www.decodeguides.com.au

Basic Physician Trainee - Monash Health (2019-)
Medical Intern - Alfred Hospital (2018)
MBBS (Hons.) - Monash Uni
BMedSci (Hons.) - Monash Uni

Former ATARNotes Lecturer for Chemistry, Biology

Starlight

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2948
  • Respect: +275
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #377 on: September 08, 2013, 05:46:04 pm »
0
^ +1
I don't think voting should be compulsory
2012-2014. BSc: Neuroscience. University of Melbourne.
2015-2018. Doctor of Optometry. University of Melbourne.

Unlikely to respond to any PMs these days.

Special At Specialist

  • Victorian
  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1542
  • Respect: +86
  • School: Flinders Christian Community College (Tyabb)
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #378 on: September 08, 2013, 06:06:44 pm »
0
^ +1
I don't think voting should be compulsory

Then we'll end up like the USA where the majority of people don't vote because most people have the attitude "one vote never made a difference". Even half of the politically savvy people won't be voting just because of that attitude. The party which ends up winning won't be the most popular across the country, but rather the most popular within the small group of people who can actually be bothered voting.

I fully support compulsory voting for people aged 18+ and I also support optional voting for people aged 16-17.
2012 ATAR - 86.75
2013 ATAR - 88.50
2014: BSci (Statistics) at RMIT
2015 - 2017: BCom at UoM

ninwa

  • Great Wonder of ATAR Notes
  • *******
  • Posts: 8267
  • Respect: +1021
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #379 on: September 08, 2013, 06:12:24 pm »
0
I think voting should have as a pre-requisite a 20-question quiz on various main parties' policies. Informed vote > compulsory vote.

here is the motoring party's core values - it LOOKS more like LNP than ALP but I have no idea, really (smaller govt, less govt interference, lower taxation)

most of their policies are in relation to roads/motoring (surprise surprise), their environment, education and health policies say pretty much nothing
ExamPro enquiries to [email protected]

charmanderp

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3209
  • Respect: +305
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #380 on: September 08, 2013, 06:31:56 pm »
0
I partially disagree. It's the option of having a say, not being forced to have a say when you are aware that you don't know about the issues, that's important.

And not everyone who doesn't want to vote is just "disillusioned" or "ceebs". Personally, I've been going out of my way to read and understand policy and economics. But my knowledge and understanding of these two is severely limited, try as I might. As I read here on AN in this megathread, I realise that I have nfi what goes on. I read about the likes of kingpomba and mao saying this, that and the other and I'm like wtf do these mean, wtf could be the implications of such a policy? Sure, I can form my own theories, and that's what they are, just theories. May be right, may be wrong. Sure, I can go out of my way to fully understand the ins and outs of economics and policy, but I have other things to do - such as try and pass my degree for god's sake.
I don't think this is a legitimate reason. I'm not expecting everyone who votes to be completely engaged in the political process. That would be a) unreasonable and b) a bit unfair, given socio-economic disadvantage and access to the appropriate materials. You forming theories on policies is completely sufficient - voting is about making a (somewhat) informed decision, not about knowing the ins and outs of everything like certain observers will. After all democracies are formed for the most part by 'average citizens' - those whom engage in day to day activities removed from the political sphere, but need to be aware of how governing affects them.

So leading onto a second point, I disagree with EL2012. Compulsory voting is one of the few incentives that people have to remain socially engaged and aware of how policy affects them. A world where governments aren't held accountable scares me, as does the thought that people will claim 'ignorance' because they simply don't have time to keep up with the political process, and hence expect that others will keep the government honest for them because they are ostensibly more engaged.

I don't think there's such a thing as a 'best person' to make a vote - like I said, that would be exclusive. Everyone's opinion should be respected, no matter if you're left or right and I completely expect that with each passing election more and more people will realise how they are inextricably linked to political going ons, and hence be motivated to keep up. Are you really satisfied putting your fate into the hands of others, just because you believe you aren't the most well-equipped individual to vote? If we did adopt that system of 'only people who know enough to vote' the electoral role would be cut down to probably less than a million people.

Only 50% of people aged between 50% to 80% were enrolled to vote this year just a few months ago. Thanks to the AEC, Get Up! and Count Me In that number was increased drastically. Maybe this is the reason the ALP held half the seats they did? Or the reason that Adam Bandt managed to hold on to his seat despite the LNP telling their voters to preference the ALP over the Greens? These things are important.

If you feel like the only thing you're catered to voting on is social policy Thushan, so be it. That's enough to make a conscientious decision. But the information on economics is easily available out there, and it literally takes all of five minutes to find independent sources that'll outline and explain fiscal policies for you. Even if not for the sake of voting, you and everyone else should know this stuff anyway. Democratic process doesn't begin and end with one election day every three years. It's a continual process of making sure that the government are representing the people.

The beauty of preferential voting is something else.

Hypothetical example: The Greens clearly have the most humane asylum seeker policy, so if that's something you believe in a vote for them ensures that issue is privileged in the national agenda. They almost certainly won't win in your seat, but from your first preference vote they obtain funding and the major parties realise there are serious Greens supporters out there.

A vote for the Greens is also a vote for climate change action, if for no other reason than to protect yourself and your children and grandchildren and so on from suffering because of the actions of us and our parents.

You don't have to be a macroeconomist or a political science major or whatever else to understand politicking. The information is so easily obtained, and ensuring that political process represents your needs and desires is infinitely more important than anything else you'll do. You cited trying to pass your degree as a reason that you don't have time to keep up. This is a legitimate concern, but consider, will your studying get any easier once the government cuts university funding so your class sizes get bigger, your lecturer's salaries get lower, they start striking, have less time to provide support, etc? Everything is interlinked.

To reiterate, I don't think there's such thing as someone who believes their say in who should form government is less legitimate than anyone else's. That's a matter of the individual themselves lessening their awareness of political going-ons. If everyone cited this, who would vote at all? And you shouldn't be scared to express your opinions because you might appear outside of the social norm because a) difference of opinions is among the most important social elements and b) it forces you to challenge your opinions, constantly bettering yourself and ensuring your decisions and actions are well reasoned.
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Arts majoring in English, Economics and International Studies (2013 onwards)

Special At Specialist

  • Victorian
  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1542
  • Respect: +86
  • School: Flinders Christian Community College (Tyabb)
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #381 on: September 08, 2013, 06:32:27 pm »
0
here is the motoring party's core values - it LOOKS more like LNP than ALP but I have no idea, really (smaller govt, less govt interference, lower taxation)

most of their policies are in relation to roads/motoring (surprise surprise), their environment, education and health policies say pretty much nothing

They want to take care of the very old and very young and disabled, so that makes them more like the ALP, but they want a sense of family and they don't want to give foreign aid to anyone outside our immediate region, so that makes them more like the coalition. They claim to be neutral and they hate on the big parties, but they might just be liars. You can never tell.
2012 ATAR - 86.75
2013 ATAR - 88.50
2014: BSci (Statistics) at RMIT
2015 - 2017: BCom at UoM

charmanderp

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3209
  • Respect: +305
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #382 on: September 08, 2013, 06:34:43 pm »
0
I think voting should have as a pre-requisite a 20-question quiz on various main parties' policies. Informed vote > compulsory vote.
I'm somewhat in favour of this, but still concerned but how general apathy towards politics will mean most people are excluded. And hence democratic power is itself diluted. I reckon it'd be prudent to have also some sort of high school civics course where students learn the basics of economic theory, tax systems, law, voting process, etc. Can only make the world a better place.
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Arts majoring in English, Economics and International Studies (2013 onwards)

JellyDonut

  • charlie sheen of AN
  • Victorian
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
  • Respect: +59
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #383 on: September 08, 2013, 06:52:03 pm »
0
Yeah - I'm guilty of being one of those. I should have put in an informal vote haha.
It's really okay. Admitting to it is a lot better than making baseless economic claims which pisses me off a bit. It's like the only science where people are encouraged to have an opinion on
It's really not that hard to quantify..., but I believe that being raped once is not as bad as being raped five times, even if the one rape was by a gang of people.

slothpomba

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4458
  • Chief Executive Sloth
  • Respect: +327
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #384 on: September 08, 2013, 06:54:01 pm »
0
Is The Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party a left wing party? Are they likely to support the Coalition?

Their party goes on about freedom of the individual a fair bit and they dont seem to like government regulation that much. Taking that as a base and running with it, not to mention the Liberals support for roads, i reckon they'll side with the Coalition.

A (very likely) future Australian senator ladies and gentlemen


ATAR Notes Chat
Philosophy thread
-----
2011-15: Bachelor of Science/Arts (Religious studies) @ Monash Clayton - Majors: Pharmacology, Physiology, Developmental Biology
2016: Bachelor of Science (Honours) - Psychiatry research

charmanderp

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3209
  • Respect: +305
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #385 on: September 08, 2013, 06:56:11 pm »
0
It's really okay. Admitting to it is a lot better than making baseless economic claims which pisses me off a bit. It's like the only science where people are encouraged to have an opinion on
Economics is definitely a tricky science, because there's so much subjectivity present.
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Arts majoring in English, Economics and International Studies (2013 onwards)

ninwa

  • Great Wonder of ATAR Notes
  • *******
  • Posts: 8267
  • Respect: +1021
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #386 on: September 08, 2013, 07:01:10 pm »
0
I reckon it'd be prudent to have also some sort of high school civics course where students learn the basics of economic theory, tax systems, law, voting process, etc. Can only make the world a better place.

Agree x10000000. Add to that basic financial knowledge - interest, stock markets, superannuation (did not realise how ignorant I was about super until I had to write about it at work) etc.
ExamPro enquiries to [email protected]

JellyDonut

  • charlie sheen of AN
  • Victorian
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
  • Respect: +59
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #387 on: September 08, 2013, 07:16:23 pm »
0
Economics is definitely a tricky science, because there's so much subjectivity present.
Not even subjectivity. A number of economic concepts, like the supply and demand diagram, have been given the reductio ad absurdum treatment that renders it kinda meaningless. Supply and demand shocks don't always yield what people think it does
It's really not that hard to quantify..., but I believe that being raped once is not as bad as being raped five times, even if the one rape was by a gang of people.

charmanderp

  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3209
  • Respect: +305
  • School Grad Year: 2012
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #388 on: September 08, 2013, 07:27:57 pm »
0
Not even subjectivity. A number of economic concepts, like the supply and demand diagram, have been given the reductio ad absurdum treatment that renders it kinda meaningless. Supply and demand shocks don't always yield what people think it does
Yep, but I meant subjectivity in terms of the relationship between economics and social policy.
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Arts majoring in English, Economics and International Studies (2013 onwards)

Starlight

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2948
  • Respect: +275
Re: Australian 2013 Federal Election Megathread
« Reply #389 on: September 08, 2013, 07:50:39 pm »
0
Then we'll end up like the USA where the majority of people don't vote because most people have the attitude "one vote never made a difference". Even half of the politically savvy people won't be voting just because of that attitude. The party which ends up winning won't be the most popular across the country, but rather the most popular within the small group of people who can actually be bothered voting.

I fully support compulsory voting for people aged 18+ and I also support optional voting for people aged 16-17.

Either way it can create problems. I know a lot of people who don't take it seriously now- donkey votes and what not. I'm sure voting is pretty accessible over there so anyone who really supports a certain party will have no problems in voting.
2012-2014. BSc: Neuroscience. University of Melbourne.
2015-2018. Doctor of Optometry. University of Melbourne.

Unlikely to respond to any PMs these days.