Over-emphasis on mathematics?

[BigAl]

Thanks for the replies also I did a little bit of research back in the day after watching Spartacus...so apparently the title dr originates from doctore which means a teacher. Just a side note sorry if my question has diverted the purpose of this thread

[pi]

Thanks for the replies also I did a little bit of research back in the day after watching Spartacus...so apparently the title dr originates from doctore which means a teacher. Just a side note sorry if my question has diverted the purpose of this thread

Hahaha pretty sure I mentioned it in my med school interview LOL

[MJRomeo81]

On a different note, I would highly suggest taking a programming course as breadth or as an elective at university. I think programming is one of the most important skills to learn and I think that a lot of processes that are done by people today will be automated in 20 years time. Once you learn one programming language, it's easy to learn others. Be the person who can automate things instead of being left behind. And this goes for arts students too - one of my friends did a pretty important history internship over the summer, and despite being a history major, had to code to deal with the database.

This. While I believe mathematics is taught poorly in schools, information technology/CS is completely neglected. Last time I checked, unless you took a year 12 IT unit, the only thing you learn about computing in high school is how to touch type and make PowerPoint's.

[EspoirTron]

This. While I believe mathematics is taught poorly in schools, information technology/CS is completely neglected. Last time I checked, unless you took a year 12 IT unit, the only thing you learn about computing in high school is how to touch type and make PowerPoint's.

Going on MJ's point here, I completed I.T Applications as a Year 12 subject last year. Although the subject does not touch base on the intricacies and complexities of programs, I see they at least attempted to make portions of the course engaging. I can't really speak for Software Development but I can say that Apps really introduces you to concepts that are beyond the traditional Junior School Information Technology classes. It was intriguing to learn concepts such as networking and the general functions of databases, interesting area, heavily neglected in high-school at times (not my cup of tea but hey I like learning different things so it was refreshing in that respect).

To the Original Poster.; I have a mindset in which I enjoy mathematics and science, but I also have a deep passion for Humanities subjects, Literature and  English. My belief is that in reality no subject has an 'over-emphasis', in fact it has an under emphasis in my opinion.
I'll start off by saying this, in Year 12 (I didn't think this was true until I saw it) you will get people who argue that "Oh English is unnecessary", I fervently rebut this point as whether you study science or not, communications skills and expression are all pertinent tools for successfully conveying one's opinion. It is to my belief that a criterion during practical reports is how well you express yourself - English skills are a must here. Furthermore, people argue that areas such as 'Text response' and Literature are unnecessary, again I rebut this point. The purpose is not to completely just test your ability to interrupt a text - well if that was a point I could justify that pigs could fly in Life of Pi or something - the point is to test your ability to look at a text or passage and derive your own meaning and produce a cogent and coherent argument which is supported by evidence; again a pertinent skill in life.
So yes, English does get shot down but ask yourself, if you possessed all the knowledge in the all world but couldn't effectively express it in an engaging manner, what's the point?

So science and mathematics. The vigor of mathematics is beautiful, I will say that. Mathematics is the very underpinning to a lot of things we take for granted now, for example, computers. Mathematics does not have enough focus in High-school in my opinion, not so much in Year 11 or Year 12 but more so in the lower year levels. Personally in junior math I think I did the same topics three years in a row and they just became marginally more difficult. Then you reach Mathematical Methods and suddenly you are thrown 1000 new things to learn. Perhaps we need more emphasis from earlier year levels (algebra could be introduced earlier probably, I don't know make it engaging and offer kids Coco Pops for getting it done or extra playtime, or buy them ice-cream you know the one with the bubblegum nose - that was the best thing on a summer's day).

Science is yet another field where we need an emphasis from an earlier age. When I did Chemistry as an elective in Year 10 we had an exchange student who by the looks of it literallyk new everything (the extension was equivalent to Unit 1 Chemistry), I think she could have done Units 3&4 comfortably in Year 10 and most likely would have been able to sit the VCE exam at the end of Year 10. This makes me believe that we just again, as in mathematics, tend to focus too heavily on repetitive concepts in Years 7-10 and do not take a more holistic approach. Personally as a Year 9 or 10 the idea of deepening my knowledge by studying Biochemistry (Unit 3 equivalent) would have been a very exciting concept as I had already studied atoms and compounds by this stage so nomenclature and organic chemistry would have not been a far stretch from this. I haven't done VCE Biology so I won't comment on it.
As for Physics, I like it, more so the theory of it though. Physics needs to have the studies that it had before brought back in, in my opinion. Concepts such as torque and a deeper inspection of transformers all deserve their place in the VCE course.


Humanities are lovely and honestly subjects such a Politics do not get their chance to star in the spotlight. Fascinating areas that again, are unfortunately overlooked in the earlier years. We study the same eras in history repetitively throughout our junior years and a closer inspection of the politics surrounding such eras would be nice. Moreover, I believe that the addition of Ancient Greece and Egypt history and society would have been a nice addition in later years. The last time I studied Egyptian history was in Year 7, however, it was fantastic.

In summation, we need an emphasis on more than just math. We need a holistic emphasis throughout the broad areas that we study throughout high-school, not only to make certain areas more engaging, but to also alleviate this idea - of what I am sure many of us are experiencing right now - "Oh I don't know what I want to do in university!"; an emphasis can allow us to really understand our passions from a earlier age and then perhaps, the choices we make in Year 12 would be much more easier and simple to make.


That is my 5 cents.

[appianway]

While I think that humanities definitely don't have their time in the spotlight, I think the most important thing is to emphasize the important skills that people need to gain in post-compulsory education (high school and university) to have the greatest possible flexibility in the workforce.

You need to be able to write well. You need to be strong quantitatively irrespective of what you do. You should be able to code. And you should also have decent proficiency in a language other than English. 

[Guest]

While I think that humanities definitely don't have their time in the spotlight, I think the most important thing is to emphasize the important skills that people need to gain in post-compulsory education (high school and university) to have the greatest possible flexibility in the workforce.

You need to be able to write well. You need to be strong quantitatively irrespective of what you do. You should be able to code. And you should also have decent proficiency in a language other than English.

Most of you may know me for hating the humanities, although all this time all I've been trying to prove is what appianway has described above. It's out of my capacity to emphasize this enough.

[Professor Polonsky]

You need to be able to write well. You need to be strong quantitatively irrespective of what you do. You should be able to code. And you should also have decent proficiency in a language other than English.

I think one or two of the above would be more than sufficient for most purposes. If you want to, then absolutely go ahead and learn all that and more. But I don't think they are all necessary.

[appianway]

Most people will change around what they do.

Whatever you do, you need to be able to write. In most professions, you need to be able to deal with some kind of data (even a lot of arts disciplines). You also will need to code, and this is something which will only get more and more important. You also really should speak another language especially as the economy globalizes.

[Russ]

There are plenty of jobs and pathways in which you will never need to code or be bilingual. They're nice things to have, but they're not on the level of communication skills and analytical ability as key to your character

[Guest]

There are plenty of jobs and pathways in which you will never need to code or be bilingual. They're nice things to have, but they're not on the level of communication skills and analytical ability as key to your character

She's referring to the future. As technology develops there also arises the need for people to conform with it. What we are trying to get at is a world where there are equally as many creators as there are users.

Edit: It will be interesting to see whether pure skill sets overtake character in the future (i.e preference for nerds who spend almost their entire life indoors behind a computer screen coding). I know it sounds ridiculous now but logically speaking there's a chance for that to happen in the future.

[grannysmith]

If people are willing to do so, it it already happening.

[Professor Polonsky]

Great, people making futuristic predictions without having any actual idea of what it's going to be like. Using current trends to predict the long-term future is silly. To use a mathematical analogy, I guess you could compare it to using the current rate of change of a function to predict a very different value. The further you go, the less accurate.

But hey, if we're in the business of making bold, basically unsubstantiated claims, here's one for you: Knowing another language will be of virtually no importance in the future. (And economic globalisation will start receding, but I guess that's a different point.)

Writing is extremely different across fields. In some, it uses an extremely basic version of English that lacks tenses, and sentences are composed of not much more than a handful of words. In others, long prose is the norm.

Basically, I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.

[appianway]

The jobs I'm talking about aren't low level jobs - they're the type of globalized, high flying jobs that many people here aspire to have. The jobs I'm thinking of are mostly in research, finance, tech, politics and policy and business. I can imagine that medicine and law might depend more on what you do.

Languages are important. I've worked/interned/whatever in Australia, the US, Germany and Switzerland. Sure, in Europe I could get by with knowledge in only French (and I was lucky I spoke French in Geneva because it helped me meet a lot of people). But if you're working in an international setting, you want to speak more than one language, even if it's not exactly in your professional setting. Networking is important (cannot emphasize this enough), and it's a lot easier to make a connection if you speak someone else's language. Sure, you won't be able to speak everyone's language, but if you only speak English you're missing out on a lot. The connections I made in Switzerland socially were far stronger than the ones I made in Germany - I spoke French and no German.

Being able to communicate effectively is essential. Writing might be different across fields but it's still important to be clear. That's how people get clients, that's how people get grants... seriously, it's absolutely absolutely paramount.

Coding is super important. Not all jobs will need code. But code will be used increasingly in the future (and it's already really important), and if you can code, your options are much broader.

A lot of what I'm saying is about making sure you have maximum job flexibility and are well prepared. Sure, if you're a suburban GP, maybe you won't need to code or to learn another language. But maybe you'll need to work on streamlining some software or who knows what else, or maybe you'll have a competitive advantage if you can speak the language of some immigrants in the area. I don't know. No one knows. But these are important skills that are often thrust aside.

[TrueTears]

^ Totally agree with coding, I'd say in some circumstances, having a good set of coding skills is more important than mathematical skills.

[Russ]

The jobs I'm talking about aren't low level jobs - they're the type of globalized, high flying jobs that many people here aspire to have. The jobs I'm thinking of are mostly in research, finance, tech, politics and policy and business. I can imagine that medicine and law might depend more on what you do.

Languages are important. I've worked/interned/whatever in Australia, the US, Germany and Switzerland. Sure, in Europe I could get by with knowledge in only French (and I was lucky I spoke French in Geneva because it helped me meet a lot of people). But if you're working in an international setting, you want to speak more than one language, even if it's not exactly in your professional setting. Networking is important (cannot emphasize this enough), and it's a lot easier to make a connection if you speak someone else's language. Sure, you won't be able to speak everyone's language, but if you only speak English you're missing out on a lot. The connections I made in Switzerland socially were far stronger than the ones I made in Germany - I spoke French and no German.

Being able to communicate effectively is essential. Writing might be different across fields but it's still important to be clear. That's how people get clients, that's how people get grants... seriously, it's absolutely absolutely paramount.

Coding is super important. Not all jobs will need code. But code will be used increasingly in the future (and it's already really important), and if you can code, your options are much broader.

A lot of what I'm saying is about making sure you have maximum job flexibility and are well prepared. Sure, if you're a suburban GP, maybe you won't need to code or to learn another language. But maybe you'll need to work on streamlining some software or who knows what else, or maybe you'll have a competitive advantage if you can speak the language of some immigrants in the area. I don't know. No one knows. But these are important skills that are often thrust aside.

Aren't you agreeing with me then, that these extra skills are niche and are not necessary for a large amount of the jobs that the majority of people will fill? I mean, I'm happy that you're set on your, ah, globalised, high flying job, but being realistic; they're not factors that are going to be relevant to most people.