1984 by George Orwell

[Mao]

The interesting thing about 1984, if you think about it, is that the Big Brother system of government is inescapable. There is no way for any rebellion to fight, or for that matter, even form, because Big Brother controls the population's thoughts. And as the new generation of people emerge under Big Brother, they will be even more brainwashed, thanks to the Youth League etc. So really, the only hope I see for the people to overthrow the government would be by apocalyptic means (Nuclear meltdown, comet, plague etc.).

somehow i see it in a different way...

referring back to Winston's diary entries, "If there is hope, it lies in the proles".
given that the population is made up of 85% proles, if they come together, the government can be easily overrun.
but thats a big if...

the book i think is the best part of the entire novel... "War is peace", the principle behind it is so perfectly chaotic, yet so relevant to what is happening at the moment, think China 50 years ago, think North Korea...
I am still overwhelmed by the amount of information in "Ignorance is Strength"...

EDIT: fixed quote “If there is hope, it lies in the proles”

[Collin Li]

I think he is saying we need a catastrophe to rally the proles against the government.

[Toothpaste]

referring back to Winston's diary entries, "the only hope lies in the proles".
given that the population is made up of 85% proles, if they come together, the government can be easily overrun.
but thats a big if...

“If there is hope, it lies in the proles”
Like I said before, the government introduced incentives (eg; the lottery) to distract them from reality. They're also preoccupied with the difficult lives they live to even care. Again, their living conditions were brought about by the people in power with one thing in mind- to keep total order and control. The Party shapes society into one that gives them peace. Speculating that it would be physical prowess overturning the government, there would be an issue of supplies supplementing strength. The food rations given to the proles are extremely small in size, hence confining them to a relatively feeble physique. Another thing to note is: why would the proles overrun the State without any knowledge of how it is run, let alone how anything works at all? If Winston was like "hey, let's take over the government 'cos they've been treating everyone unfairly", there would be little chance of the proles believing him at all. Well, he would explain it more, but the point is that the proles don't have the right mindset to commit to any kind of self-induced revolution.

Here's another interesting quote from Winston (talking to Julia):
“The proles are human beings. We are not human.”
As members of the Outer Party, which is a step up the ladder from the proles, they have life a little bit "easier". But they're being monitored and watched very closely day-in, day-out. Their lives are ultimately determined by the hands of the State. Private matters, sexual motives, marriage, attitude and opinions, who they know; and what they do are some of the things -dare I say it- ruthlessly molested by the State. Freedom to express emotions and the right to possess personal concerns are such ties to being "human beings". The restrictions placed on them, were not forced onto the proles- who had no problems having private matters of their own. They didn't have to worry about telescreens around every corner, so all up they were free to "be human".

[Mao]

toothpick i'm gonna bet on you getting >45 on ur english....!!!!! *watches pwnage*... LOL

[droodles]

I AM GETTING REALLY SICK OF THIS REVOLUTION TOTALARIAN JARGON IN THIS BOOK I HATE POLITICAL REALISATIONS THAT THIS BOOK IS PRESENTING. KITE RUNNER WAS SO MUCH BETTER POOR SOHRAB

[costargh]

Watch:
V for Vendetta

[kido_1]

Watch:
V for Vendetta

qft.

[brendan]

Watch:
V for Vendetta

definitely watch that and "The Lives of Others" <- about life in communist East Germany

[costargh]

I have a 1984 study guide -Insight that I don't need. Anyone?

[/0]

Watch:
V for Vendetta

That guy that tells the news reminds me of Bill O'Reilly, except he's not british.

[excal]

referring back to Winston's diary entries, "the only hope lies in the proles".
given that the population is made up of 85% proles, if they come together, the government can be easily overrun.
but thats a big if...

“If there is hope, it lies in the proles”
Like I said before, the government introduced incentives (eg; the lottery) to distract them from reality. They're also preoccupied with the difficult lives they live to even care. Again, their living conditions were brought about by the people in power with one thing in mind- to keep total order and control. The Party shapes society into one that gives them peace. Speculating that it would be physical prowess overturning the government, there would be an issue of supplies supplementing strength. The food rations given to the proles are extremely small in size, hence confining them to a relatively feeble physique. Another thing to note is: why would the proles overrun the State without any knowledge of how it is run, let alone how anything works at all? If Winston was like "hey, let's take over the government 'cos they've been treating everyone unfairly", there would be little chance of the proles believing him at all. Well, he would explain it more, but the point is that the proles don't have the right mindset to commit to any kind of self-induced revolution.

Here's another interesting quote from Winston (talking to Julia):
“The proles are human beings. We are not human.”
As members of the Outer Party, which is a step up the ladder from the proles, they have life a little bit "easier". But they're being monitored and watched very closely day-in, day-out. Their lives are ultimately determined by the hands of the State. Private matters, sexual motives, marriage, attitude and opinions, who they know; and what they do are some of the things -dare I say it- ruthlessly molested by the State. Freedom to express emotions and the right to possess personal concerns are such ties to being "human beings". The restrictions placed on them, were not forced onto the proles- who had no problems having private matters of their own. They didn't have to worry about telescreens around every corner, so all up they were free to "be human".

Just to add further to what you've written.

Knowledge is power. The party knows this. This is why the majority of the populace, the proles, are blinded from reality by additional distractions such as the lottery. Out of sight, out of mind basically. They don't have the reason to think about what could be happening in the greater world, so they don't.

For those who must work in the Outer Party, there must be a way to control them - remembering that they are the bearers of the Party's inner works. Such is the installation of telescreens and the concept of thoughtcrime.

You'll find that these two things, while different prima facie, are in fact the same thing - a means to control the lower castes.

[droodles]

Is the mass production of pornography also used as a distraction for the proles?

[kido_1]

Is the mass production of pornography also used as a distraction for the proles?

It can be viewed that pornography is essentially morally degrading or a beacon of satisfaction and fulfillment. In 1984, pornography can be used as a distraction to the masses of the proletarian working class. However, pornography can be seen to epitomise, in essence the freedom of the proles. Even though the proles are subjugated and regarded of a lower social callibre, they are still offered avenues of satisfaction which the Outer Party member could only dream of.

Thus Orwell instinctively creates two ambivalent concepts associated with the production of pornography for the proles. This blends in intelligently with the concept of 'doublethink' and creates an aura of suspense that engages the readers to question the motives behind this totalitarian ideology. Yet, this can also allude to the phrase "Ignorance Is Strength", which instinctively can be envisaged to elucidate that cheap pornography is an ingredient of ignorance that gives the party the despotism that it wields. It keeps the proles aligned and "in check" in terms of values and prospects. This helps to ensure the proles do not rebel against the party and undermines Winston's vehement conviction'..If there is any hope it lies in the proles..'.

Proles' ignorance= Strength for the party.
Mass Cheap Pornography= Ignorance and emaciation of proper thought.

[droodles]

you are very good with your words, it's so pretty

[Mao]

me thinks "the theory and practice of oligarchical collectivism" is the best bit in the book
however it's crap that "freedom is slavery" was never fully explained...

does anyone have a lead on that??