Login

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

May 23, 2025, 06:47:50 am

Author Topic: VCE Chemistry Question Thread  (Read 2702455 times)  Share 

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

biy

  • Victorian
  • Trendsetter
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Respect: -6
  • School: Scotch College
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3615 on: May 31, 2015, 05:39:53 pm »
0
All amino acids (in VCE, at least. inb4 someone who actually knows biochem knocks me back) are zwitterions, not all zwitterions are amino acids. A zwitterion is a type of ion that shows a positive and negative charge at the same time, an amino acid is just a type of zwitterion (hence the name "amino acid" being kinda stupid)

By putting that amino acid into solution.

Consider the following examples:

Acidic pH:
The solution will be absolutely drenched with protons - they're absolutely everywhere. So, your amino acid's carboxyl group is very likely to get protonated.

Neutral pH:
There's no excess of protons or hydroxides, so our amino acid will simply exist in zwitterion form.

Basic pH:
The solution will be absolutely drenched with hydroxides (as opposed to protons). So, these hydroxides will try to grab onto a proton whenever it can - so, it will take the excess proton on the amine group of the amino acid.

Usually, through covalent bonds, di-sulfide bridges and other intermolecular forces.

Any bond ever - but, normally they're just hydrogen bonds.

But when the solution is drenched with hydrogen protons, why does the carboxyl group of the amino acid become protonated, and why not the amine group? Doesnt the amine group act as a base, and accept the protons, if so then why does the carboxyl group get protonated?

2014: Further (48) - Japanese (34)
2015: Chemistry (50) - Eng Lang (29) - Methods (35) - Specialist (44) - Biology (50)
ATAR: 99.90

keltingmeith

  • Honorary Moderator
  • Great Wonder of ATAR Notes
  • *******
  • Posts: 5493
  • he/him - they is also fine
  • Respect: +1292
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3616 on: May 31, 2015, 05:57:15 pm »
+1
Doesnt the amine group act as a base, and accept the protons, if so then why does the carboxyl group get protonated?

Nope, definitely not - not sure where you heard that one. Note that this is what an amino acid looks like in a neutral solution (important!):



Now, if we make the solution acidic (flood it with protons), those protons are going to see that negative charge on the carboxyl, so they're going to get super excited and crowd it like the hot person at formal. The amine, though? It has a positive charge - the protons are already reluctant enough to join the nitrogen when it's positively charged, and they're even LESS likely to protonate it when it has four bonds and even EVEN LESS likely when they can simply take the negative charge on the carboxyl.

Redoxify

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 478
  • Respect: +13
  • School: UoM
  • School Grad Year: 2018
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3617 on: May 31, 2015, 06:45:17 pm »
0
Loving the comparison to the formal haha,
can you also say that when
that a zwitterion forms a conjugate acid (NH3+) and conjugate base(COO-)
therefore when in an acidic environment,
the hydronium ions are react more with the base, and vise versa in a basic environment, where they would react with the conjugate acid
2014-2015: VCE
2016-2018: Bsc Melbourne Uni

biy

  • Victorian
  • Trendsetter
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Respect: -6
  • School: Scotch College
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3618 on: May 31, 2015, 06:46:26 pm »
0
Thanks eulerfan191

You rock <3
2014: Further (48) - Japanese (34)
2015: Chemistry (50) - Eng Lang (29) - Methods (35) - Specialist (44) - Biology (50)
ATAR: 99.90

Redoxify

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 478
  • Respect: +13
  • School: UoM
  • School Grad Year: 2018
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3619 on: May 31, 2015, 07:17:33 pm »
0
explain the use of a reference sample, TMS,
i'm not sure what they mean by reference sample, is that a sample with no sample in it, so we can work out any absorbency by impurities
2014-2015: VCE
2016-2018: Bsc Melbourne Uni

mahler004

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Respect: +65
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3620 on: May 31, 2015, 09:34:36 pm »
+1
All amino acids (in VCE, at least. inb4 someone who actually knows biochem knocks me back) are zwitterions, not all zwitterions are amino acids. A zwitterion is a type of ion that shows a positive and negative charge at the same time, an amino acid is just a type of zwitterion (hence the name "amino acid" being kinda stupid)

This is true -a zwitterion is a type of molecule. It's a molecule with positive and negative charges, that balance out to be overall positive.

(Worth pointing out that molecules that aren't amino acids can be zwitterionic.)

The ionic state of an amino acid depends on a the pH. At neutral/near neutral pH (depends on the pKa of the carboxyl/amino groups in the amino acid,) the amino acid will be zwitterionic. As you expect, when you lower the pH (more protons,) you portent the carboxyl group (now -COOH,) so the amino acid is now negative. The opposite if you raise the pH (deprotenate the amino group - now NH2).

By putting that amino acid into solution.

Technically incorrect (the best kind of incorrect.) Amino acids are zwitterionic in the solid phase (even in the gas phase apparently.)

Regarding the bonds of proteins and their structures, how can you describe the secondary structure, and what bonds are responsible for the alpha helices and b pleated sheets to form?
Usually, through covalent bonds, di-sulfide bridges and other intermolecular forces.
Secondary structure is just formed by backbone hydrogen bonding.

Tertiary structure is a consequence of several interactions - disulphide bonds (although these are actually quite rare), electrostatic interactions between amino acids, hydrogen bonding, hydrophobic interactions etc (actually mainly the latter - although I can't remember if they are mentioned in VCE.)

explain the use of a reference sample, TMS,
i'm not sure what they mean by reference sample, is that a sample with no sample in it, so we can work out any absorbency by impurities

TMS simply accounts for the fact that not all spectrometers are the same - in a 100 MHz spectrometer the protons will resonate around 100 MHz, in an 800 MHz spectrometer, they will resonate at around 800 MHz. How can you compare data between spectrometers when the data from each spectrometer will be different? You use a reference compound (tetramethyl silane, TMS) and decide (entirely arbitrary!) that it's protons will resonate at 0 ppm. You can use this to convert a measurement in MHz to a measurement in PPM - which can be compared between spectrometers.

NMR can't usually deal with impurities (unless you knew what the impurities were and could subtract them from the spectrum.) Usually a sample which is subjected to NMR is highly pure.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 09:45:02 pm by mahler004 »
BSc (Hons) 2015 Melbourne

PhD 2016-??? Melbourne

I want to be an architect.

I am a unicorn

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Respect: 0
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3621 on: June 01, 2015, 11:14:27 pm »
0
Hi :)
Is a C=C double bond considered as a functional group?
Because there was a question in checkpoints that said it was but I always thought it wasn't...

Thanks :)
:) :) :)

Sundal

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Respect: 0
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3622 on: June 01, 2015, 11:18:26 pm »
0
For the reaction in the image (below), I cant seem to understand how it is a hydrolysis reaction, because I thought hydrolysis reactions had water as a reactant?

Cheers.

Sundal

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Respect: 0
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3623 on: June 02, 2015, 06:37:27 am »
0
For the reaction of chloroethane reacting with OH- ions to form ethanol, what would be the states of the reactants and products?

I never can seem to know the states for the different organic chem reactions :(

Cheers,

HighTide

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
  • Sink or swim
  • Respect: +48
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3624 on: June 02, 2015, 07:45:54 am »
+2
Hi :)
Is a C=C double bond considered as a functional group?
Because there was a question in checkpoints that said it was but I always thought it wasn't...

Thanks :)
Alkenyl functional group. But I think other functional groups like carboxyls, hydroxyls, esters do get priority over it.
Have a look at this website. It's pretty helpful.  :)
http://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2011/02/14/table-of-functional-group-priorities-for-nomenclature/

For the reaction in the image (below), I cant seem to understand how it is a hydrolysis reaction, because I thought hydrolysis reactions had water as a reactant?

Cheers.
Interesting question lol.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, from what I see in the image, there are actually two separate reactions occurring.
The first reaction:
So the first reaction is the hydrolysis of the triglyceride. 3 water molecules have been added to the triglyceride to separate into glycerol and 3 fatty acid (palmitic acid) chains. So you will end up with glycerol getting the OH group as shown in the first product. The second product would be 3 fatty acids each with a carboxyl group. This part is the hydrolysis.
The second reaction:
The second reaction seems to be an esterification reaction. The 3 fatty acids created in the first reaction will react with the  3 methanol's, to form an ester, methyl palmitate. As this is an esterification reaction, it is also a condensation reaction and there will be 3 water molecules used up. Therefore, (not 100% sure) I think they have shown two separate reactions as one, as the 3 water molecules used in hydrolysis will be cancelled out by the 3 water molecules produced in the condensation reaction, and so they probably haven't shown it. Hope it helps  :), although I do stress that I am not 100% sure.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 07:52:05 am by HighTide »
2014-2015: VCE
2016-2018: Bachelor of Biomedical Science

Kel9901

  • Victorian
  • Trendsetter
  • **
  • Posts: 158
  • Respect: +2
  • School: Kardinia International College
  • School Grad Year: 2015
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3625 on: June 02, 2015, 01:43:20 pm »
+1
For the reaction of chloroethane reacting with OH- ions to form ethanol, what would be the states of the reactants and products?

I never can seem to know the states for the different organic chem reactions :(

Cheers,

all aqueous
s=change in displacement for physics
2011: Methods [47]
2012: Spesh [42] Further [47]
2013: UMEP Maths [4.5]
2014: Chem [47] Physics [48] Music Performance [43]
2015: Spesh [redo] English Accounting Music Investigation

jyodesh.com

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • sine and cosine should 1v1
  • Respect: +2
  • School: MLMC
  • School Grad Year: 2013
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3626 on: June 02, 2015, 06:35:41 pm »
+1
Alkenyl functional group. But I think other functional groups like carboxyls, hydroxyls, esters do get priority over it.
Have a look at this website. It's pretty helpful.  :)
http://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2011/02/14/table-of-functional-group-priorities-for-nomenclature/
Correct me if I'm wrong but, from what I see in the image, there are actually two separate reactions occurring.
The first reaction:

This is probably the best (if not only) way to explain why its a hydrolysis reaction. In reality its a nucleophilic acyl substitution reaction. (No one needs to know this though)
2012:Biology
2013: |Chemistry(50)|Physics|Mathematical Methods (CAS)|English Language|MUEP Chemistry(95 - dux)|
2014- BBiomedSc (Adv. Hon.) at Monash, chemistry electives esp. organic & medicinal chemistry, VCE chem tutor, ATAR notes VCE chemistry video content creator (in production)

Sundal

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Respect: 0
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3627 on: June 02, 2015, 07:42:18 pm »
0
Thanks HighTide!

Great explanation !

lzxnl

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3432
  • Respect: +215
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3628 on: June 02, 2015, 09:07:07 pm »
+1
all aqueous

Does chloroethane dissolve in water? I doubt it does
2012
Mathematical Methods (50) Chinese SL (45~52)

2013
English Language (50) Chemistry (50) Specialist Mathematics (49~54.9) Physics (49) UMEP Physics (96%) ATAR 99.95

2014-2016: University of Melbourne, Bachelor of Science, Diploma in Mathematical Sciences (Applied Maths)

2017-2018: Master of Science (Applied Mathematics)

2019-2024: PhD, MIT (Applied Mathematics)

Accepting students for VCE tutoring in Maths Methods, Specialist Maths and Physics! (and university maths/physics too) PM for more details

I am a unicorn

  • Victorian
  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Respect: 0
Re: VCE Chemistry Question Thread
« Reply #3629 on: June 03, 2015, 01:50:00 am »
0
Hello :)

I was wondering if anyone would be able to briefly describe how biogas is produced?

Thanks :)
:) :) :)