Chinese as breadth at Melbourne Uni; worth doing?

[vox nihili]

And does 4 sciences per semester really drive people nuts? I was planning on potentially overloading second year with five sciences in a semester if allowed. You're saying that would likely drive me crazy? I hope it doesn't. ..

To each their own, but my personal experience was that breadth made a very, very nice intellectual break from science and prevented science overload. It depends on the person I guess, but I think this is the case for most people, certainly. Variety is good!

[appianway]

Hmm. I highly doubt that I'll be overwhelmed by sciences. The last time that happened was when I had to learn pretty much the entire first year Melbourne Uni chemistry course (plus SOOOOOOOO much more................) in two weeks at the chemistry summer school because I had five hours of sleep everyday. I trust university life isn't like that and that I'll get more sleep

Please do yourself a favor and not mention olympiad camp at uni. Quite a few of your peers (wherever you go for uni) will have been at the camp, and quite a few will have actually been on the team, meaning they've gone through work which is a fair bit more difficult than what's done at camp.

As someone who was on the physics team a few years ago and who is doing a science degree, I can tell you that I've been far more drained at uni than at olympiad camp.. Quite a few of your peers (wherever you go for uni) will have been at the camp, and quite a few will have actually been on the team.

Olympiads are a sprint but uni is 3-4 years. Please don't go into your degree with the hubris that because you've done science competitions you'll be able to breeze through. You *might* be able to, but if you're in that situation, you're probably not challenging yourself enough. Start in upper division classes and choose the classes that are notorious for their difficulty. Do research on the side if you can find a project. Overload if you must (even though there are better ways to learn than overloading). Do an exchange to a university which is known for being more academically intense than Melbourne if you want. And yeah, VCE really does have no correlation to how well you do at uni.

[abcdqdxD]

And yeah, VCE really does have no correlation to how well you do at uni.

Hmm, why is this?

[brightsky]

Hmm, why is this?

For several reasons:
1. VCE courses are tiny compared to uni courses. Apparently uni students cover the entire VCE biology course in something like two weeks.
2. You don't get as much of an opportunity to pester lecturers at uni. Most of the learning has to be done on your own, which can be an issue for students who have become accustomed to depend upon teachers to spoon feed them.
3. In the case of VCE, there are heaps of practice exams out there. Once you've done like 10 practice exams, you're basically set for 80-90% of the questions that will appear on the end-of-year exam. There are hardly any practice exams at uni. The questions which come up on the end-of-year exam are also not as predictable.
4. This might not apply to everyone, but perhaps a lack of motivation might also contribute to the putative disjunction.

[abcdqdxD]

For several reasons:
1. VCE courses are tiny compared to uni courses. Apparently uni students cover the entire VCE biology course in something like two weeks.
2. You don't get as much of an opportunity to pester lecturers at uni. Most of the learning has to be done on your own, which can be an issue for students who have become accustomed to depend upon teachers to spoon feed them.
3. In the case of VCE, there are heaps of practice exams out there. Once you've done like 10 practice exams, you're basically set for 80-90% of the questions that will appear on the end-of-year exam. There are hardly any practice exams at uni. The questions which come up on the end-of-year exam are also not as predictable.
4. This might not apply to everyone, but perhaps a lack of motivation might also contribute to the putative disjunction.

Hmm yeah fair enough. I think uni catches out the rote learners

[appianway]

Hmm, why is this?

From my experience:

1) The outcomes of the work are supposed to be very different. Uni introduces a lot more material than VCE; VCE is an art of perfecting responses and mastering the study guide.
2) The work flow is very different. VCE is based on exams. My experience at uni (I only did UMEP at Melbourne and nothing else, so I don't really know how Melbourne works) is that work is stuffed down your throat each week depending on your subject choice. It might be different in Australia. At the very least, all of my upper division STEM courses here have 10-20 hours of homework each week, which has to be submitted and counts for 30-40% of my grade.
3) Uni is somewhat of an equalizer once you get in. In high school, privilege plays a huge role: top scores are dominated by people who went to the elite private schools and a handful of selective schools. Once you're at uni, everyone has the same classes and basically the same resources (the biggest difference I can see is how many hours you might need to work at a part time job).
4) A lot of what you do at uni isn't related to coursework. Getting a good internship in engineering or finance doesn't always require the best grades - you need extra curriculars, a strong academic record and to have good people skills. Likewise, opportunities for research/other fellowships after you graduate will depend on how good your research as an undergrad is, which is often not correlated to how good you are at class. So how successful you'll be isn't always linked to your grades. The biggest exception I can see for this is the graduate MD, where grades/GAMSAT matter a lot, and where a job is nearly guaranteed in medicine after graduation.

[lzxnl]

Please do yourself a favor and not mention olympiad camp at uni. Quite a few of your peers (wherever you go for uni) will have been at the camp, and quite a few will have actually been on the team, meaning they've gone through work which is a fair bit more difficult than what's done at camp.

As someone who was on the physics team a few years ago and who is doing a science degree, I can tell you that I've been far more drained at uni than at olympiad camp.. Quite a few of your peers (wherever you go for uni) will have been at the camp, and quite a few will have actually been on the team.

Olympiads are a sprint but uni is 3-4 years. Please don't go into your degree with the hubris that because you've done science competitions you'll be able to breeze through. You *might* be able to, but if you're in that situation, you're probably not challenging yourself enough. Start in upper division classes and choose the classes that are notorious for their difficulty. Do research on the side if you can find a project. Overload if you must (even though there are better ways to learn than overloading). Do an exchange to a university which is known for being more academically intense than Melbourne if you want. And yeah, VCE really does have no correlation to how well you do at uni.

I think you misunderstood my point. I only brought it up because it was supposed to be an entire year's subject material in two weeks, and I didn't think first year at least would be that intense. I'm sure that second and third year get harder, but I can't exactly judge that.

Also, when you say "quite a few of my peers"...do you mean in my year group? If so...there weren't TOO many Victorians at the summer school across the board that time, and there aren't many people at the summer schools to begin with. Add to that the low number of people there to begin with, and the fact that not all of them will go to the same uni as me, and I fail to see how I could have quite a few peers who were also at the camp. Unless some of them move interstate, my notion of the number of Victorians at the summer school is incorrect or you're referring to the entire student body; otherwise, I'm confused. Same as the one about quite a few of them being on the team. There aren't many team members to begin with, and I fail to see how quite a few would have been on the team. I guess I just don't quite follow your reasoning there.

And again, I think people may be misconstruing my statement about breadth being harder than science to mean that science is easy for me. That's not the case; my intention was to say that I have a much lower chance of doing well in a breadth subject than in a science subject, given the same amount of effort put in, because my interests aren't very broad.

[Russ]

Please do yourself a favor and not mention olympiad camp at uni. Quite a few of your peers (wherever you go for uni) will have been at the camp, and quite a few will have actually been on the team, meaning they've gone through work which is a fair bit more difficult than what's done at camp.

The real reason to not mention it is because the vast majority of the people you meet will not have been on it and be somewhat amused that you're bringing it up

As for breadth, you shouldn't try to game the breadth system, it's not really worth it. Just do the subjects that will push you out of your comfort zone and make you think in new ways, don't try to find the subject that is technically breadth but will be narrow enough for you to be familiar with.

[appianway]

I think you misunderstood my point. I only brought it up because it was supposed to be an entire year's subject material in two weeks, and I didn't think first year at least would be that intense. I'm sure that second and third year get harder, but I can't exactly judge that.

Also, when you say "quite a few of my peers"...do you mean in my year group? If so...there weren't TOO many Victorians at the summer school across the board that time, and there aren't many people at the summer schools to begin with. Add to that the low number of people there to begin with, and the fact that not all of them will go to the same uni as me, and I fail to see how I could have quite a few peers who were also at the camp. Unless some of them move interstate, my notion of the number of Victorians at the summer school is incorrect or you're referring to the entire student body; otherwise, I'm confused. Same as the one about quite a few of them being on the team. There aren't many team members to begin with, and I fail to see how quite a few would have been on the team. I guess I just don't quite follow your reasoning there.

And again, I think people may be misconstruing my statement about breadth being harder than science to mean that science is easy for me. That's not the case; my intention was to say that I have a much lower chance of doing well in a breadth subject than in a science subject, given the same amount of effort put in, because my interests aren't very broad.

When I did PhB for a semester at ANU, in my PhB cohort of ~20 people, there was an IMO guy from NZ, two IPhO people from Melbourne and an IChO guy from Melbourne. I had quite a few friends who went to Melbourne who went to the bio summer school/were on the team/were on the chem team... anyway, you'll be bumping into quite a few of the people again and again, especially as most people study in Canberra, Sydney or Melbourne.

And yeah, I agree with Russ. Don't bring it up because most people won't know it, and there'll probably be people in your cohort who've been through a more intense version of the camp by being on the team.

If you're really worried about breaths, just take what you find interesting. This is probably your last chance in your life to do that. As some others have mentioned, if you're quantitatively oriented, consider econ - it's a really fascinating subject with a lot of applications, and it can be quite quant if you can weasel your way out of the intro level classes.

[lzxnl]

OK. Point taken about the summer camp.

I'll have to find something interesting then, even if it is something unfamiliar. Thanks everyone!

[vox nihili]

3) Uni is somewhat of an equalizer once you get in. In high school, privilege plays a huge role: top scores are dominated by people who went to the elite private schools and a handful of selective schools. Once you're at uni, everyone has the same classes and basically the same resources (the biggest difference I can see is how many hours you might need to work at a part time job).

Something that is supported by all of the data. At UniMelb there are >90% non-government students, which climbs as you get into courses with higher ATAR requires like commerce and Biomed. But, in terms of performance, students from public schools tend to do a hell of a lot better. That's just the generalised data, obviously this isn't a rule of thumb at all and really depends on the individual student and the nature of their schooling, but you're quite right. It's interesting I think!

The real reason to not mention it is because the vast majority of the people you meet will not have been on it and be somewhat amused that you're bringing it up

Some people (AKA me) also may never have heard of it...

[Turtle]

OK. Point taken about the summer camp.

I'll have to find something interesting then, even if it is something unfamiliar. Thanks everyone!

Surely you would be interested in at least one of the following areas (for example), meaning you would find a breadth subject interesting to you:
-Music
-Film
-Sport
-Art
-The environment
-Computers
-Photography

Heck...there is even wine tasting involved in a breadth subject!

[charmanderp]

It's almost as though the uni had no good reason for making breadth a compulsory part of every course

[Belgarion]

It's almost as though the uni had no good reason for making breadth a compulsory part of every course

The uni doesn't need a good reason, just look at the semester 2 exam timetable 😜

[lzxnl]

I don't follow; what was so funny about the exam timetable? I heard the exams were all packed together.

Surely you would be interested in at least one of the following areas (for example), meaning you would find a breadth subject interesting to you:
-Music
-Film
-Sport
-Art
-The environment
-Computers
-Photography

Heck...there is even wine tasting involved in a breadth subject!

Sadly enough, only music appeals to me out of all of those above, and I had already discounted music as breadth in my first post because I didn't particularly enjoy learning about musical history, general knowledge for exams and music theory in general.

I also do not particularly like alcohol; I've sipped wine off a chopstick around six years ago and I was socially coerced into drinking a shot of whatever that 40% alcohol by volume was at my valedictory dinner. Other than that, I've refused to have any. I appreciate the intention though (: