A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens Thread

[Yacoubb]

I've made this discussion thread so anyone who is completing A Christmas Carol can add sections they wish to discuss about & we can provided our own analyses to help ourselves and each other out!

[brenden]

Great idea.
I'm actually studying ACC over these holidays for the new AN resource so I'm quite interested to see what VCE peeps are getting from ACC on their preliminary readings.

What I find particularly interesting after my first reading is the Narrator's personality (or characterisation, if you will ) and the style of narration.

I'd like to offer my interpretation and see what people think, but I'm obviously not the one with the exam in under eleven months from now. So, some questions to get your thinkers going, and if we get a few attempts at answering the questions/get a discussion going I'll chime in!

- What type of narrator does Dickens use in A Christmas Carol?

- Why might Dickens have created such a narrator? And, closely related to this question: what effect does this narration have?

- In what way does the narrative style allow Dickens to better achieve what could be his overall purpose in ACC?

[Cort]

I've noticed Dickens has a subtle way to present his political contention in the story -- but I wonder if analysing that would be beneficial in any regards for the text response?

[Yacoubb]

Great idea.
I'm actually studying ACC over these holidays for the new AN resource so I'm quite interested to see what VCE peeps are getting from ACC on their preliminary readings.

What I find particularly interesting after my first reading is the Narrator's personality (or characterisation, if you will ) and the style of narration.

I'd like to offer my interpretation and see what people think, but I'm obviously not the one with the exam in under eleven months from now. So, some questions to get your thinkers going, and if we get a few attempts at answering the questions/get a discussion going I'll chime in!

- What type of narrator does Dickens use in A Christmas Carol?

- Why might Dickens have created such a narrator? And, closely related to this question: what effect does this narration have?

- In what way does the narrative style allow Dickens to better achieve what could be his overall purpose in ACC?

This is actually something that I haven't really paid attention to; but its great you've mentioned it now because next time I read it (which will be in the coming days), I'll take a look at that.

I've noticed Dickens has a subtle way to present his political contention in the story -- but I wonder if analysing that would be beneficial in any regards for the text response?

I think it would definitely be useful to look at the political contention. Actually, I find that looking at the society Dickens portrays in the novella very important to analyse too. A society that is immersed in the Christmas spirit, and a society that affirms in Christmas as a season to be merry, irrespective of whether they are financially able or disabled. Does Dickens do this to demonstrate the goodness of humanity, or does Dickens actually do this to show the goodness of humanity as a backdrop whilst the reader ponders over Ebenzer Scrooge, who is miserable and morose amongst this jolly society?

Something to consider

[Cort]

I think it would definitely be useful to look at the political contention. Actually, I find that looking at the society Dickens portrays in the novella very important to analyse too. A society that is immersed in the Christmas spirit, and a society that affirms in Christmas as a season to be merry, irrespective of whether they are financially able or disabled. Does Dickens do this to demonstrate the goodness of humanity, or does Dickens actually do this to show the goodness of humanity as a backdrop whilst the reader ponders over Ebenzer Scrooge, who is miserable and morose amongst this jolly society?

Something to consider

Interesting points you raised, actually. Think you can view it as Dickens' suggestion of what is possible if anyone -- especially towards the wealthy middle class (as many of his writings were directed towards)-- had considered or cared about the pauper strata?  I mean, I think it's more about the idea of a possibility of  having a sense of good will, and moreover, portraying the idea of being an 'ideal' Christian if you transformed your actions like Scrooge. The goodness of humanity? Seems a bit to far fetched as ( I find it) a bit  too idealistic. Mind you, Dickens is already hardened with a strict social ideas after his experience with poverty during his youth.

Or we are just over analysing it and Dickens just wanted to write a good Christmas story.

[brenden]

Some context:

Back in the day, you didn't really have myriads and myriads of books to choose from. I walk into any given bookstore today and I know <1% of the authors published - and I read a lot more than your average person. Two hundred years ago, it wasn't so, and the vast, vast majority of the English population would have either read Charles Dickens, had Charles Dickens read to them, or generally know what was going on (as I can glean information about GoT despite not watching it). With his work, Dickens had an opportunity to reach almost the entirety of the wealthy classes (I just mean the people that could afford to read). I don't think it would have been lost on him that he had a large platform from which he could encourage social change. Indeed, some of his work could have prompted some changes in the legal system (do yourselves a favour and never read Bleak House). Taking those things into account, my interpretation of ACC is as if Dickens sat down and thought "hmm... how can I get rich people to give stuff to poor people without getting them mad in the process?"

There would also be some that will tell you that Charles Dickens shaped the modern Christmas through his depictions. Perhaps it wasn't so commercialist and was once a minimally strict religious holiday? I wouldn't know... I wasn't alive, but it makes you wonder!

Is he trying to demonstrate the goodness of humanity, or encourage the goodness of humanity?

[Yacoubb]

Some context:

Back in the day, you didn't really have myriads and myriads of books to choose from. I walk into any given bookstore today and I know <1% of the authors published - and I read a lot more than your average person. Two hundred years ago, it wasn't so, and the vast, vast majority of the English population would have either read Charles Dickens, had Charles Dickens read to them, or generally know what was going on (as I can glean information about GoT despite not watching it). With his work, Dickens had an opportunity to reach almost the entirety of the wealthy classes (I just mean the people that could afford to read). I don't think it would have been lost on him that he had a large platform from which he could encourage social change. Indeed, some of his work could have prompted some changes in the legal system (do yourselves a favour and never read Bleak House). Taking those things into account, my interpretation of ACC is as if Dickens sat down and thought "hmm... how can I get rich people to give stuff to poor people without getting them mad in the process?"

There would also be some that will tell you that Charles Dickens shaped the modern Christmas through his depictions. Perhaps it wasn't so commercialist and was once a minimally strict religious holiday? I wouldn't know... I wasn't alive, but it makes you wonder!

Is he trying to demonstrate the goodness of humanity, or encourage the goodness of humanity?

Thanks for that! I think encouraging the goodness of humanity would be more like it. The metamorphosis of Scrooge and his awakening to the reality of how his attitude impacts not only upon his prosperity, but the prosperity of an entire people, an entire society, exemplifies Dicken's message of the goodness of humanity being paramount.

I'm thoroughly enjoying this text! Thoroughly enjoying English! This is the text I probably will study for the exam, so I'm going to really analyse it.

Interesting points you raised, actually. Think you can view it as Dickens' suggestion of what is possible if anyone -- especially towards the wealthy middle class (as many of his writings were directed towards)-- had considered or cared about the pauper strata?  I mean, I think it's more about the idea of a possibility of  having a sense of good will, and moreover, portraying the idea of being an 'ideal' Christian if you transformed your actions like Scrooge. The goodness of humanity? Seems a bit to far fetched as ( I find it) a bit  too idealistic. Mind you, Dickens is already hardened with a strict social ideas after his experience with poverty during his youth.

Or we are just over analysing it and Dickens just wanted to write a good Christmas story.

As Brencookie mentioned, I think Dickens' message really was intended to the wealthy class of his time. The spectres of Christmas Past, Christmas Present and Christmas Yet to Come are vivid representations of the need to come into contact with one's past (through their life-experience), their present (through witnessing what is occuring around them) and delving into the future (exploring what the ramifications of one's actions have on their future and the future of those around them).

I still think the encouragement of goodness in humanity is being reitterated by Dickens through this novella. By the novella's resolution, Scrooge has redeemed himself; he raises Bob Cratchit's salary, promises to assist the Cratchits with Tiny Tim, attends the dinner party hosted by his nephew, Fred, and has the Christmas spirit within him replenished. Only through replenishing the goodness within him, is Scrooge able to find peace and redeem himself, despite his ignorance initially leading to his imminent demise, on Christmas day.

Just throwing ideas around haha I love this thread!

[brenden]

As an extension to what I said earlier: social criticism was indeed a fair whack of Dickens' work. Let's consider ACC on a most basic level. It's 100 pages long, divided into fourfive? parts, with a pretty even structure. It isn't particularly difficult to read (by Dickens standards; I'm not trying to put down anyone who struggles with Dickens - I've been there!)... its narration is relatively endearing (not quite what I'm getting at with my first lot of questions if anyone wants to have a go). I mean, as far as Dickens and 'literary' go, ACC isn't that high on the list. It's accessible, both to us but especially to a Victorian audience. We'd be really, really safe in assuming he did this deliberately. Why might he write this particular tale as one of his most accessible (and perhaps enjoyable?)


Edit: And yeah Yacoubb - definitely keep it coming with lofting around ideas! This is a great thread.

[Yacoubb]

I've got some new topics of discussion:

(a) Dicken's intended audience.
It is fair to say that Dickens has written his festive novella A Christmas Carol to the middle-class of the Victorian society he lived in. Through the character of Ebenzer Scrooge, the archetype of miser and misanthropy, Dickens is able to reitterate the reforms that need to be made within the Victorian middle-class, primarily involving an enhancement in the treatment of the poor. Furthermore, Dickens' portrayal of the Cratchits as a jolly family, despite Bob Cratchit's meagre salary, the absence of his daughter Martha because of her work, and having a crippled son (Tiny Tim), exemplifies the fact that the middle-class must accept the poor, who possess the prosperity that the wealthy can only dream of.

(b) Time
I think the element of time is paramount in this narrative. The phantom of Scrooge's former business partner, Jacob Marley, warns Scrooge that he will be visited by three spectres (Ghost of Christmas Past, Ghost of Christmas Present and Ghost of Christmas Yet to come) on three separate, consecutive nights. However, following the supernatural intervention, where Scrooge metamorphoses from a miser misanthropist to a giving philanthropist, he learns that the phantoms visited him in the one night, between Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. This is quite significant; does this insinuate the importance of time, and how Ebenezer Scrooge must mend his ways before his redemption ultimately becomes impossible.

(c) Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come
Out of the three phantoms, the pall of gloom that hangs over the skillfully depicted phantom of Christmas Yet to Come is the most intriguing and discomforting. The decorum and enigma that cloaks the phantom is intended to allow Scrooge to identify his failures alone, and also positions the reader to accept Scrooge's failures, and promise rectifications, in the absence of an omniscient, intervening narrator.

^^ Just some points for discussion. And a little bump to this thread!

[2NE1]

What are some construction elements he uses in Stave 5?

[Yacoubb]

What are some construction elements he uses in Stave 5?

The exaggerations in Scrooge's prosperity! He is boisterous and jumps around happily, almost like when he was a boy in his youth. Dickens intentionally does this to exemplify the metamorphosis of Scrooge from a miser, misanthropist, to a giving philanthropist. Also, Ebenezer Scrooge increases Bob Cratchit's salary, takes it upon himself to care for Tiny Tim, and visits his nephew, Fred, for Christmas. Stave 5 demonstrates how critical time is. Scrooge is determined to mend his ways and rectify his errors momentarily after his journey with the three spectres comes to an end.

[Yacoubb]

Hi guys. So I was doing a little background of this novella, looking at his this novella is a critique of the Victorian society of Dickens' time.

When John Dickens, the father of Charles Dickens, was imprisoned, Charles' mother arranged for seven of his siblings to go into jail with their father. Charles, however, lived outside the prison and worked in a blacking factory, pasting labels on the bottles of shoe polish. During these few months of hard labour, he witnessed the poverty and hardships endured by the underclass.

Following the industrial revolution, society's attitude to agriculture, social and cultural aspects of life changed. The middle-class of Victorian society became more wealthy, whilst conditions for the poor and destitute worsened. The middle-class began to acquire Malthusian and Benthamite ideologies, which further compelled them to agree with the Poor Laws, and assignment of the poor in work houses that were in poor condition.

Witnessing the poverty played a paramount role in forming the character of Dickens. The novella, A Christmas Carol, is intended to draw the attention of the middle-class to the plight and mistreatment of the poor. Through Ebenezer Scrooge's transformation, Dickens insinuates that if one individual is able to alter their perspectives and address the plight of the poor, then society as a whole is able to do so. Through the medium of this novella, Dickens stealthily combines a somewhat indirect descriptions of the hardships faced by the poor, with a heart-rendering and sentimental celebration of the Christmas season.

Benthamite philosophies: the belief in "the greatest happiness of the greatest people".
Malthusian economics: the belief in disease and famine being natural intervention to decrease surplus populations.


Thought we could start a discussion on this. Thanks

[nhmn0301]

Hi guys. So I was doing a little background of this novella, looking at his this novella is a critique of the Victorian society of Dickens' time.

When John Dickens, the father of Charles Dickens, was imprisoned, Charles' mother arranged for seven of his siblings to go into jail with their father. Charles, however, lived outside the prison and worked in a blacking factory, pasting labels on the bottles of shoe polish. During these few months of hard labour, he witnessed the poverty and hardships endured by the underclass.

Following the industrial revolution, society's attitude to agriculture, social and cultural aspects of life changed. The middle-class of Victorian society became more wealthy, whilst conditions for the poor and destitute worsened. The middle-class began to acquire Malthusian and Benthamite ideologies, which further compelled them to agree with the Poor Laws, and assignment of the poor in work houses that were in poor condition.

Witnessing the poverty played a paramount role in forming the character of Dickens. The novella, A Christmas Carol, is intended to draw the attention of the middle-class to the plight and mistreatment of the poor. Through Ebenezer Scrooge's transformation, Dickens insinuates that if one individual is able to alter their perspectives and address the plight of the poor, then society as a whole is able to do so. Through the medium of this novella, Dickens stealthily combines a somewhat indirect descriptions of the hardships faced by the poor, with a heart-rendering and sentimental celebration of the Christmas season.

Benthamite philosophies: the belief in "the greatest happiness of the greatest people".
Malthusian economics: the belief in disease and famine being natural intervention to decrease surplus populations.


Thought we could start a discussion on this. Thanks

Not so sure if this is related to your previous post, but do you think Want and Ignorance have a strong link with the novella's background? And can anybody help me to explain a bit about these 2 children? I'm not so sure I get that part....
Thanks heaps!

[Yacoubb]

Not so sure if this is related to your previous post, but do you think Want and Ignorance have a strong link with the novella's background? And can anybody help me to explain a bit about these 2 children? I'm not so sure I get that part....
Thanks heaps!

"This Boy is Ignorance. This Girl is Want" - A Christmas Carol, Stave 3.

The backdrop of the novella looks at the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution, and the social and cultural toll it has taken on society, alongside the economic one. As a result of the rich becoming wealthier, they become more compelled to embark on the pursuit of wealth, as portrayed by Ebenezer Scrooge (the novella's protagonist). Ignorance and want have very strong correlation, and as told by the Ghost of Christmas Present, "doom" is printed on the forehead of the boy, demonstrating that ignorance ultimately leads to doom.

[Cort]

Hi guys. So I was doing a little background of this novella, looking at his this novella is a critique of the Victorian society of Dickens' time.

When John Dickens, the father of Charles Dickens, was imprisoned, Charles' mother arranged for seven of his siblings to go into jail with their father. Charles, however, lived outside the prison and worked in a blacking factory, pasting labels on the bottles of shoe polish. During these few months of hard labour, he witnessed the poverty and hardships endured by the underclass.

Following the industrial revolution, society's attitude to agriculture, social and cultural aspects of life changed. The middle-class of Victorian society became more wealthy, whilst conditions for the poor and destitute worsened. The middle-class began to acquire Malthusian and Benthamite ideologies, which further compelled them to agree with the Poor Laws, and assignment of the poor in work houses that were in poor condition.

Witnessing the poverty played a paramount role in forming the character of Dickens. The novella, A Christmas Carol, is intended to draw the attention of the middle-class to the plight and mistreatment of the poor. Through Ebenezer Scrooge's transformation, Dickens insinuates that if one individual is able to alter their perspectives and address the plight of the poor, then society as a whole is able to do so. Through the medium of this novella, Dickens stealthily combines a somewhat indirect descriptions of the hardships faced by the poor, with a heart-rendering and sentimental celebration of the Christmas season.

Benthamite philosophies: the belief in "the greatest happiness of the greatest people".
Malthusian economics: the belief in disease and famine being natural intervention to decrease surplus populations.


Thought we could start a discussion on this. Thanks

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head (is that how the expression goes?). To expand just a teeny-wheeny bit further in the historical part - the middle class (doctors, lawyers, business men) became more predominant and influential as economics had shifted from agricultural subsistence towards more production based items. As a result of this, the nobility (gentry, aristocratic), whom usually held power by the magnitude of the land had decreased - land had played no profit in this 'industrial revolution'. The power  the middle class gained- or could further gain - is evident by their actions in supporting and passing the Poor Law.

Hence, this is why I think you two already figured above, that Dickens primarily focuses this story to convince the middle class. Not only are they able to make changes, but they might be able to make positive changes, in hope, to create a better world. Furthermore, Dicken's association with friend, Thomas Carlyle (a predominant analysis into the French Revolution, with his book, The French Revolution: A History) might explain why Dickens wrote the way he did, on top of the experiences he has encountered in his childhood. I think it was the Insight Text Guide - that states that Dickens has some sort of belief himself,  and through the hints of any business/political like parlance to the characteristic of Ebezener himself, he makes it quite clear: the rich should be responsible for the poor.