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July 31, 2025, 08:59:45 am

Author Topic: VCE Biology Question Thread  (Read 4946506 times)  Share 

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cosine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6045 on: September 23, 2015, 08:53:00 am »
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In all honesty, I wasn't exactly sure about this one so I've asked an immunology major to come in and save us. Hopefully will post soon :)

Needless to say, when I thought of posting I did bullshit an answer. That answer turned out to be the right one. Moral of the story: when stuck, bullshit.

Did you end up asking the major about B cells engulfing the antibody-antigen complex, and then presenting fragments on it's MHC II markers? (It was I think about 3 days ago, just curious to see if this is correct or not)

Also, do we need to know about memory T cells in VCE Bio? If so, is it as simple as T helper cells form a complex with MHC II markers from macrophages, and they then proliferate into memory and effector helper cells?
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Biology24123

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6046 on: September 23, 2015, 11:26:06 am »
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In all honesty, I wasn't exactly sure about this one so I've asked an immunology major to come in and save us. Hopefully will post soon :)

Needless to say, when I thought of posting I did bullshit an answer. That answer turned out to be the right one. Moral of the story: when stuck, bullshit.

I think we can say that this is one of the harder MC.

cosine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6047 on: September 23, 2015, 11:28:16 am »
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During transcription of a mRNA molecule, are the primers the same as the promoters? My textbook says promoters bind to the 3' end of the template DNA strand and then only will RNA polymerase attach to this and start synthesising the mRNA molecule. Are these promoters just another name for primers? If so, what is the point of these primers/promoters?
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heids

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6048 on: September 23, 2015, 11:41:32 am »
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During transcription of a mRNA molecule, are the primers the same as the promoters? My textbook says promoters bind to the 3' end of the template DNA strand and then only will RNA polymerase attach to this and start synthesising the mRNA molecule. Are these promoters just another name for primers? If so, what is the point of these primers/promoters?

Promoters are the 3' end of the transcription site - the section of the DNA template strand that RNA polymerase binds to.  Primers are the short segments of RNA that form the start of the mRNA chain, which the RNA pol builds off.
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Biology24123

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6049 on: September 23, 2015, 01:27:58 pm »
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Do we need to know specific function of ADH?
Do we need to know about the different types of plants that photosynthesize (c4 plants)
The types of receptors (chemoreceptors, photoreceptors)
How antibiotics actually kill bacteria?
Photoperiodism?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 01:36:12 pm by Biology24123 »

cosine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6050 on: September 23, 2015, 01:33:43 pm »
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Promoters are the 3' end of the transcription site - the section of the DNA template strand that RNA polymerase binds to.  Primers are the short segments of RNA that form the start of the mRNA chain, which the RNA pol builds off.

Where do these primers come from in the nucleus? Like I know they are DNA sequences which essentially start off the RNA Polymerase, but where, and how do these primers themselves attach to the DNA molecule without the assistance of RNA Polymerase? (Considering that RNA Polymerase uses these primers to attach nucleotides, what assists these primers to attach in the first place?)

Also, are antibiotics antibodies in the medicine? Dumb question but I had to say it... If they are, then why are antibodies effective against viruses but antibiotics not effective?

If it isn't, why are antibiotics not effective against viruses anyways? Sure, they're intracellular, but same goes with antibodies, how can an antibody neutralise a virus if it is inside a host cell?

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Biology24123

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6051 on: September 23, 2015, 01:42:37 pm »
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Where do these primers come from in the nucleus? Like I know they are DNA sequences which essentially start off the RNA Polymerase, but where, and how do these primers themselves attach to the DNA molecule without the assistance of RNA Polymerase? (Considering that RNA Polymerase uses these primers to attach nucleotides, what assists these primers to attach in the first place?)

Also, are antibiotics antibodies in the medicine? Dumb question but I had to say it... If they are, then why are antibodies effective against viruses but antibiotics not effective?

If it isn't, why are antibiotics not effective against viruses anyways? Sure, they're intracellular, but same goes with antibodies, how can an antibody neutralise a virus if it is inside a host cell?

Enzymes called RNA primase add the primers. Antibiotics are not antibodies. Antibiotics can work by destroying bacteria cell walls or stopping vital processes.

Antibiotics are kind of like pesticides, they kill living things, viruses are non living. There are no vital functions in viruses that can be stopped as they need host cells to reproduce. Antibodies don't neutralize viruses when they are in the cell (as far as I know)

cosine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6052 on: September 23, 2015, 03:30:55 pm »
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Enzymes called RNA primase add the primers. Antibiotics are not antibodies. Antibiotics can work by destroying bacteria cell walls or stopping vital processes.

Antibiotics are kind of like pesticides, they kill living things, viruses are non living. There are no vital functions in viruses that can be stopped as they need host cells to reproduce. Antibodies don't neutralize viruses when they are in the cell (as far as I know)

So does that mean DNA primase adds the primers on DNA during DNA replication?
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Biology24123

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6053 on: September 23, 2015, 03:41:13 pm »
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So does that mean DNA primase adds the primers on DNA during DNA replication?

Yes

vox nihili

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6054 on: September 23, 2015, 04:18:04 pm »
+4
I think we can say that this is one of the harder MC.
Did you end up asking the major about B cells engulfing the antibody-antigen complex, and then presenting fragments on it's MHC II markers? (It was I think about 3 days ago, just curious to see if this is correct or not)

Also, do we need to know about memory T cells in VCE Bio? If so, is it as simple as T helper cells form a complex with MHC II markers from macrophages, and they then proliferate into memory and effector helper cells?

Don't know what ended up happening with her. She typed up the answer and showed me what she was going to say but obviously never posted it, odd!

Basically, the reason the answer is C is because a loss of thymal tissue reduces the body's capacity to form new, so-called naïve T-cells but not new memory cells. Memory cells are formed from existing T-cells, and there is already an abundance of these floating around.

As to your second question, cosine, about the B-cells: I could have answered this one myself. B-cells are able to endocytose pathogens and fragments thereof and present those pathogens on an MHC class II molecule. Whether or not this is mediated by interactions between the pathogen and the antibody is not particularly important. The B-cell's role as an antigen-presenting cell is fairly minor; dendritic cells are the movers and shakers here.

Where do these primers come from in the nucleus? Like I know they are DNA sequences which essentially start off the RNA Polymerase, but where, and how do these primers themselves attach to the DNA molecule without the assistance of RNA Polymerase? (Considering that RNA Polymerase uses these primers to attach nucleotides, what assists these primers to attach in the first place?)

Also, are antibiotics antibodies in the medicine? Dumb question but I had to say it... If they are, then why are antibodies effective against viruses but antibiotics not effective?

If it isn't, why are antibiotics not effective against viruses anyways? Sure, they're intracellular, but same goes with antibodies, how can an antibody neutralise a virus if it is inside a host cell?

Really, really critical point here everyone seems to have missed: only DNA polymerase needs a primer. RNA polymerase DOES NOT need a primer.

DNA polymerase needs a primer because of the way the enzyme works essentially. It can only attach things to the 3' end of existing strands. RNA polymerase is a whole other kettle of fish. It can make things from scratch. Indeed, primase is a type of RNA polymerase (which is kind of obvious when you think about it; it makes an RNA polymer after all).


As far as antibiotics are concerned, they are small molecule drugs that are able to interact with various molecules inside of bacteria and, essentially, inhibit them. They are targeted against molecules that are endogenous to bacteria but are not found in human cells.
That antibiotics are not effective against viruses is more about nomenclature than anything else. Anti=against, bio=life. Viruses aren't a form of life. Antibiotics are just what we call drugs that kill bacteria. Anti-virals, which obviously kill viruses, work in essentially the same way as antibiotics; they target enzymes in viruses that we don't have as a means of killing the virus.
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Sine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6055 on: September 23, 2015, 05:01:47 pm »
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With bacterial transformations I know two methods are electroporation and heat shock therapy are we required to have knowledge about the full process or would we just need to state the process?

Is Hydrogen bonding in the secondary structure of a protein is between functional groups (amine, carboxyl) but not R(Z) groups.

cosine

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6056 on: September 23, 2015, 05:40:20 pm »
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With bacterial transformations I know two methods are electroporation and heat shock therapy are we required to have knowledge about the full process or would we just need to state the process?

Is Hydrogen bonding in the secondary structure of a protein is between functional groups (amine, carboxyl) but not R(Z) groups.

You don't need to know about the processes, just know that they exist and bacteria cannot just take in plasmids for fun.

Secondary structure of proteins is the result of hydrogen bonding between functional groups, yes, not R groups. The R group interractions between amino acids determines the tertiary structure of the protein.
2016-2019: Bachelor of Biomedicine
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Biology24123

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6057 on: September 23, 2015, 05:45:22 pm »
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In general I've found Unit 3 exams to be a lot harder than unit 4 exams. Is anyone like this?

heids

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6058 on: September 23, 2015, 06:08:06 pm »
+1
Do we need to know specific function of ADH?
Do we need to know about the different types of plants that photosynthesize (c4 plants)
The types of receptors (chemoreceptors, photoreceptors)
How antibiotics actually kill bacteria?
Photoperiodism?
No. No. No. Maybe? (no) No.

Really, really critical point here everyone seems to have missed: only DNA polymerase needs a primer. RNA polymerase DOES NOT need a primer.

Fail on my part, sorry all :(

Don't know why I even hang in this thread lol ::) :-[ :P think it just happened by mistake... my knowledge of the finer or past-VCE points of Biology is, well, shaky, and until I do the biomed degree I yearn for but will never do, I'll only lead y'all astray :D

One wise word of advice that this proves, before taking a graceful exit from this thread: to score highly, you can actually be amazingly ignorant.  I didn't score sensationally or anything, but I knew far less even than I do now in year 12 (like really basic things, like I didn't know what a leading/lagging strand or Okazaki fragments were, or that B cells can't proliferate without TH cells), and still pulled a 45 raw.  If you make sure you know all the solid basics, then you'll score more highly than you imagine because the depth VCAA expects you to know things is surprisingly shallow :D

So take heart and make sure you know those solid basics!
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mahler004

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Re: VCE Biology Question Thread
« Reply #6059 on: September 23, 2015, 06:18:48 pm »
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You don't need to know about the processes, just know that they exist and bacteria cannot just take in plasmids for fun.

Secondary structure of proteins is the result of hydrogen bonding between functional groups, yes, not R groups. The R group interractions between amino acids determines the tertiary structure of the protein.

The secondary structure is a result of hydrogen bonding between backbone functional groups (carboxyl and amide). Tertiary structure can be a consequence of inter-sidechain functional group hydrogen bonding (or what I'm awkwardly trying to say, there are functional groups in the protein in places other then the backbone that aren't involved in secondary structure.)
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