Discussion point: "Results threads"

[jinny1]

If you want to remove threads that are not constructive, you've got much better places to start than results threads.
Now that they've been confined to their own subforum and not in other threads, I see them as a basically self inflicted problem. You can hide those subforums and never see another posted result ever again if you don't like them. I really don't see it as a problem that merits being banned, there's no need to make sure that absolutely everybody is not offended by anything posted on the forum

It's not just about not being non-constructive, others here have pinpointed the reason they don't want the results thread. It does tend to be demoralising and intimidating. I've decided to stop posting there because it feels like a self-glorification thread of some sorts, especially for those who never post anywhere else on ATARnotes except to show off their high marks.

Moving the thread to its own subsection definitely helped but i'm sure some people will still fall into the trap of visiting them. Disclosing and comparing uni subject scores just feels like we are back in high school VCE again. But i guess some people want a place to share and talk about their marks so a forum wide ban might be a bit too much, we have to accommodate for everyone's needs.

I wish there was some way of selecting out those specific individuals who only use ATARnotes as a means to show off their high marks. I know many people who post there are not at all trying to show-off and i don't have any problems with them.

[pi]

I wish there was some way of selecting out those specific individuals who only use ATARnotes as a means to show off their high marks. I know many people who post there are not at all trying to show-off and i don't have any problems with them.

I agree! I feel there are always a few posts every year that can really ruin the good vibe of the results threads (even though I still believe they can be demoralising and raising expectations for some etc etc, this just makes it worse). I dunno, maybe some users are trying too hard to be modest and it really comes off as really arrogant fishing for ego points.

The "omg I'm going to fail and I'm never going to get a HD" posts are the worst imo (especially prior to the exams), I'm not sure why someone would say that (and you can tell the genuine concern posts of that nature because they're usually quite lengthy in nature and lacking all the "omgs" and emoticons) unless they hoped to lower expectations of others and then smash it to get some extra praise. Disgusting.

Are these threads generally an ego boost? Yes, of course! But I personally don't have any problem with people seeking praise for their efforts (I know that if I 'do well' this semester I'll damn well need some gratification hahahaha).

Why AN? Why not take that to a mate on Facebook (would you status your results on Facebook? If not, why not?), or your family? I really don't understand, you're basically saying "I deserve an ego boost, so y'all should suck it up and praise me, if you don't want to the don't read my post" O.o

edit: that ended up sounding a lot harsher than it did in my head, it was nothing personal :/

The biggest praise you should be getting from your result is the self-satisfaction of actually doing well (and some of you get onto Dean's lists and whatnot too!). If our results make you happy then that's all you need. I really don't see the need for anything else.

About the blocking off from forums issues, what about pi's mention of Sweet Nothings? Could we not then bring that back and allow users to selectively block it? Keep in mind I do not know much about it except it was present in the past, but now gone apparently forever.

#bringbacksweetnothings

[jinny1]

About the blocking off from forums issues, what about pi's mention of Sweet Nothings? Could we not then bring that back and allow users to selectively block it? Keep in mind I do not know much about it except it was present in the past, but now gone apparently forever.

Why AN? Why not take that to a mate on Facebook (would you status your results on Facebook? If not, why not?), or your family? I really don't understand, you're basically saying "I deserve an ego boost, so y'all should suck it up and praise me, if you don't want to the don't read my post" O.o

The biggest praise you should be getting from your result is the self-satisfaction of actually doing well (and some of you get onto Dean's lists and whatnot too!). If our results make you happy then that's all you need. I really don't see the need for anything else.

You guys are right. AN isn't about an 'ego boost' and creating a subsection just for those who want the 'ego boost' will just segregate the AN community.

Gratification should be self-derived and i don't see a need to post it on a forum with strangers. I was really happy about my marks this semester and i felt no urge to share it on the internet. It was more than enough gratifying to be rewarded for my efforts and to share it with close friends and family.

Results thread creates more negativity than positivity so i think the utilitarian approach applies here. And for those who want an 'ego boost', then this forum may not be the right place.

[BigAl]

I think signs are good...They encourage some of y12 students...I'm sure you all got a pm asking about how you achieved your goals. I'm in favour of keeping them..

[Crystall97]

So many of you are saying that these threads are 'not constructive' to those who see them and feel 'intimidated'. I think the destructive thing in these cases are those individuals who continually sit on AN and seek out results threads when they are fully aware it will only damage their confidence. Some users need the support of AN to praise their efforts when they are so often overlooked in the cohort. Hiding these threads will not stop the damage of result posting. Individuals will just read pages for hours, and feeling equally terrible over other users signatures/profiles. As a '14er I only post on the VCE boards really but I dont think this is really a very widespread problem. It's not like you could ban every statistic being posted on AN so its best to ignore the boards if you don't like them!

[keltingmeith]

Personally, I don't see an issue with the results threads.

Yes, one particular thread has made me slightly nervous given all the really good scores coming out of it, but people's reactions to their scores haven't bothered me at all. I guess that's just me, but I don't care if someone is annoyed with a 98 or if someone is overjoyed at a 56 - that's just a reflection on how well they wanted to do and what they got.

Beyond that, though, results are a good way of encouragement - if you get a score you're happy with, people are happy for you, and then not only are you proud of what you did, but the others might then get more excited for their marks. I look forward to getting my marks back and saying to people, "this is what I got, and I'm proud of all the effort I put in to get these scores". Whether that happens on AN or not isn't of much issue to me, but I certainly would love to be able to share my happiness with the entire forums if given the opportunity.

[ninwa]

Anyone who knows me knows how much I detest arrogance, fishing for compliments, ego-stroking etc. etc. and AN seems to be a magnet for those types of people (both university and VCE).

With that said (and I said this in the mod threads too) I think in practice it will be nigh impossible to police people's posts for results. The reason I created a new board for results is so I could remove respect, so that 1) the top tutoring ads wouldn't just be people who log on twice a year to brag, and 2) the "messages of the week" can actually have useful posts in there. If we removed the results board, then that puts all the bragging back into the standard threads and all those problems will come back.

I certainly don't have the time to follow every single university thread and delete anything that mentions results, and I would never expect moderators to make that kind of time commitment.

Recently I nearly deleted my account on ATARNotes, for the reason that posts (at least on the University related boards, which I practically only use) were becoming more and more superficial, like some aspects of Twitter: more self centred, continual complaints about things (rather than taking them for granted in moderation), and to a degree the humble bragging/ego stroking you discussed. Perhaps this comes as more niches are filled in ATARNotes; i.e. as more resources and information/posts are available, there is less of a need to discuss things that are focused on a certain topic, and things subsequently change. Remember how we used to talk about the really ‘noob’ things (hehe) that everyone now knows or is able to easily access? Yeah that; but those were the days.

That's why I removed respect from all of the university boards but apparently this is bad because there are useful posts in there (I dispute this - just look at the current messages of the week).

Also

(mod edit: fixed up title of post, it has replaced " with ")

hahahahah fail

Also,

#bringbacksweetnothings

His Royal Majesty King Enwiabe has said no

[Thu Thu Train]

I don't think results threads should have any conversation. Just your results and that's it.

[alondouek]

Why AN? Why not take that to a mate on Facebook (would you status your results on Facebook? If not, why not?), or your family? I really don't understand, you're basically saying "I deserve an ego boost, so y'all should suck it up and praise me, if you don't want to the don't read my post" O.o

edit: that ended up sounding a lot harsher than it did in my head, it was nothing personal :/

The biggest praise you should be getting from your result is the self-satisfaction of actually doing well (and some of you get onto Dean's lists and whatnot too!). If our results make you happy then that's all you need. I really don't see the need for anything else.

No offence taken in the slightest! I'm here for the discussion as much as anything

I think part of the point I'm making apropos to your (very valid) counterpoint is that AN is an academic community, and given that we discuss everything about everything before and during assessment periods, I don't see any reason why the pay-off shouldn't be discussed too.

I agree that posts along the lines of "~~~~OMG guys I'm going to fail~~~~" are distasteful and annoying when they're made in a disingenuous fashion, but I think you're also discounting the fact that people might also do this just to vent their frustrations about uni regardless of how they are actually performing. From this, it would be incorrect to draw a link between this sort of comment and eventual marks/grades, because although it's possible (if unfortunate) that people are attempting to set themselves up for a pissing contest, it's also possible that people are either simply stressed or genuinely worries about a subject.

However, this is digressing from the initial point of this thread. I maintain that I don't see any issue with posting marks for an ego-boost; if that's what people feel they need to do then that's fine by me; it doesn't affect me in any way and I have trouble seeing why it would affect someone (and maybe that's a failing on my behalf, but I legit just don't get it). As for your point regarding posting on facebook/talking to family/etc., I'll return to the point I made earlier than AN is an academic community above all else; plenty of people would post their results here and not on facebook/not talk to their families because here it would make more sense for people to actually see it as relevant on AN than anywhere else. Anecdotally, I strongly doubt any of my mates on facebook (and to a lesser extent (hopefully)) or my family give too much of a shit as to my performance at uni. In short, given the context of AN the results threads are (in my mind) not out of place here, though they would be for most people elsewhere.

And I don't think it's just about ego-boosting either: It's perfectly fine to me that people might want to compare marks. I'm sure that even the most humble people here have at some point partaken in discussions with friends about "how did you go on that SAC/test/exam/[insert assessed task here]" without the intention of making it a dick-measuring competition. It's a shame if people get demotivated by it but that's potentially more to do with the person reading the post than the person making it. This is why I take exception to your statement ""I deserve an ego boost, so y'all should suck it up and praise me, if you don't want to the don't read my post"" which is a bit of strawman argument. People making the posts aren't necessarily seeking praise or an ego boost; possibly they're just adding their bit to a pretty much harmless discussion; if people are going to take their own negative meanings and messages from the posts there (although there isn't really anything to base those off), then that's on them. I don't see why the results thread has to be removed though.

And, as I stated before, if people really are going and posting their results specifically for praise etc. -- that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I can see why it might be annoying or even upsetting for some people, but I don't agree; to me there isn't anything to get offended, upset or demotivated about. In short, people are going to do their thing and other people might need to adopt an attidude of "water off a duck's back"!

P.S. I hope people don't see this as me being unsympathetic, it's just that for me on a scale of things that I would personally get upset or annoyed about, other people's work or achievements ranks very, very lowly.

[vea]

Personally, I have found that the results thread can be very useful especially when they are from individuals who regularly post on AN as it allows you to see what type of scores result from their amount of work or how 'intelligent' they may seem from their posts. It's also encouraging to see how people who have struggled throughout their course/subjects are able to get marks they are happy with through their hard work, asking questions on AN etc.

I'd like to point out stonecold who I have followed ever since he was in year 12. He was someone who I know from posts to have just missed out on guaranteed med entry at melb by a decimal of an aggregate in VCE but from his posts, I've seen how hard he works even in uni from his spectacular results and this in itself has been inspiring to people like me who feel in a similar position.

Having said that, I can see how some users may find it annoying to see random lurkers suddenly posting their brilliant scores on the board though I have been here long enough to not be phased by such acts

IMO, these boards are not something that should be a big issue to AN and perhaps we can include disclaimers such as "these results may not necessarily reflect the standard of the general student population" or something. If anything, I feel that having uni boards itself may be a distraction to AN which was originally intended for VCE students but I guess this is a totally different issue..

[hobbitle]

I totally didn't know that you could opt out. Am going to do that now.

[xenial]

To be honest I don't really agree with the suggestion that people can just 'opt out' of the culture by choosing not to click on the thread. It's like saying teenage girls shouldn't have body image issues because they could theoretically just avoid any medium that might affect their self confidence.

Like a) it's not quite that easy to avoid
and b) nobody has that kind of foresight. No one's gonna sit there and go 'oh, mm, I might not click on that thread, it might establish unrealistic paradigms of success which could be detrimental to my long term mental well-being!!' No. People will always just click on it mindlessly.

I also think it's a bit different to talking with your friends about results - though that can be just as much of a dick comparing. But your friends have kind of seen you go through it all - they saw you stressing, they saw you giving up your quality of life, and many of them might not have actually envied what you had to go through to get there. In year 12, my friends knew that I wouldn't stay out past midnight the whole year because I wanted to study the next morning. They know about the difficulties I had maintaining a relationship and friends, and how much the former suffered when I tried to juggle it all. They know that parts of me regretted how hard I worked because for a while people could only see me as a competitive high achiever. With the results thread, all you see is a bunch of smiles and jokes and 95+'s. It's suddenly established as a healthy norm.

I'm just not a fan of the culture of perfectionism which so easily imposes itself on insecure people looking to validate themselves. And I think many of them would be the same people who post in those results threads now, and I think I would've been one of them once upon a time. That would be fine - but I don't think you can escape those insecurities by getting a high ATAR/uni results. And if you can, you end up a grossly competitive, narrow-minded person anyway. I only managed to truly build confidence by surrounding myself with positive relationships and a healthy work-life balance, and focusing my energies elsewhere.

I don't know. I'm just not sure if it's entirely conducive to good mental health. Maybe just referring to the letter grade would soften the blow.

[alondouek]

To be honest I don't really agree with the suggestion that people can just 'opt out' of the culture by choosing not to click on the thread. It's like saying teenage girls shouldn't have body image issues because they could theoretically just avoid any medium that might affect their self confidence.

I think you're conflating the issue at hand with something unrelated; we're not saying that anyone has to "opt out of the culture", you literally can opt out of having to see those threads/that subforum (as in, they are not visible to you at all, kind of how you guys can't see the moderator boards).

[xenial]

I know. But I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect insecure people to have the agency to do that.

[cameronp]

I'm a relative newbie and a bit of an outlier here (I came to AN to contribute to the UniMelb subject reviews thread, which I'd found handy when planning my enrolment at the start of the year). No strong opinion on whether the results threads should stay or die, but here's my two pennysworth anyway...

1. That people are more likely to post their grades if they've got utterly spectacular, holy-shit-is-that-even-possible marks; if you're getting decent, "more normal" marks then you're certainly not being left in the dust by any stretch of the imagination.

I'd actually like to see more people posting who put in heaps of effort and got 'normal' good results (e.g. high 70s or low 80s) than people complaining about a 90% average not meeting the standards they'd set for themselves. The comments in the UniMelb thread have been pretty uniformly supportive and encouraging of people, regardless of the specific marks they got.

There's more to life than uni, there's more to uni than marks, and at the very most, the scores you get are a means to an end. But after the crazy stress of the exam period, followed by the nervous waiting for results, it's natural for people to be excited about the culmination of a few months' effort - especially if their results exceeded their expectations.