Subject Choices?

[geminii]

Hi everyone,
I really need help picking my subject choices next year.
These are the subjects I know I'm definitely going to take:
- English
- Maths Specialist
- Biology
- Chemistry
And these are the ones that I'm contemplating whether I should take or not:
- Physics
- Maths Methods
- Maths Further

I just need to know a few things, like which subjects would be good for me to take so that I can get a good job in the future, and would get me a good course in Uni? I also need to figure out when to take all these subjects, so this is what I've planned so far:
Year 10:
- Maths Specialist 1&2
- Biology 1&2
Year 11:
(Don't know yet)
Year 12:
(Don't know yet)

I'm really new to the whole VCE thing and I want to get ahead so I don't have to worry about it so much later, so if anyone could explain:
- What's the difference between 1&2 and 3&4 (because I have no idea!!)
- How many subjects it is recommended that someone take
- And possibly maybe an example of what you took for your VCE years, so I could get a reference to work from.

I'm not really interested in Physics so I'm still not sure if I'm going to take that, but I'll keep my mind open. 
Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks so much!! 

[Crystall97]

Hi! (:
Great to see someone else on AN nice and early...

Okay so first thing first. 1&2 refers to Units 1 and 2 which is basically semester one and two of year eleven. 3&4 are the same thing but semesters one and two in year twelve. You need to complete all four units of a subject to receive a study score for it, and a minimum of 4 subjects including English to get an ATAR / VCE certificate. (A heap of schools allow you to do a 1/2 subject or two in year 10 and 3/4 in year 11 as a 'headstart' to lighten the load in year 12).

As for subjects. Correct me if I am wrong, it might be different for different schools, but where I go you must do maths methods to be able to do Specialist Maths. For this reason, If you wish to go onto specialist, I would strongly recommend taking Methods. Many topics overlap and some stuff covered in Methods is assumed knowledge for Specialist. (Also I think 1/2 Specialist is generally called General Maths Advanced, which again at my school you couldn't study unless you had already done, or were taking methods...?)

From your list of subjects, I do physics and honestly would NOT recommend it to you. If you are wanting to do well in VCE the most important thing to do is choose subjects that you want to do, and actually have genuine interest in. Anything you do because your best friend does or you think it will get marked up heaps is not a good choice because at the end of the day, you will never perform as well over two years in a class you don't want to be in. Go with what you desire. (Only exception is if it is needed for university prerequisites because they need to be met)

Best wishes for the future, caring this early will only make you more successful in your VCE endeavour.

[keltingmeith]

If you're definitely going to take specialist, you have to do methods. This is essentially non-negotiable - not to mention that methods is a pre-req for a lot of things, and sometimes it's a pre-req without specialist being an alternative (which is kind of stupid, but eh). (note: this is with consultation to the new study design which I think will be in place by the time you reach VCE)

In terms of your questions:

1. The difference between 1/2 and 3/4 is that 1/2 you just need to pass, but it's your marks to 3/4 that will contribute to your ATAR.
2. It is recommended you do at least 5 all up - doing another one is good, another two is unnecessary but still good if you can handle it (I personally wouldn't say more than 6, though).
3. You can see in my signature what I took and my relevant scores - check that out if you want to know more about me.

Finally, in terms of what you're asking, if you don't like the idea of physics, don't do it. The way to beat VCE is to pick subjects you both like and are good at - in fact, being good at it is optional if you like it just that much.

Just some additional advice from me - I can see you have specialist 1/2 there. I personally suggest you DON'T accelerate maths - with the new study design changeover, it'll become difficult for you. You can't go into 3/4 spec in year 11 anyway, so that wasn't an option to begin with. But, if you do methods early, you'll miss out on some new information that you won't learn in spec otherwise (like parametric equations [REALLY IMPORTANT] and the new statistical inference stuff). If you really want to accelerate into maths, don't do spec 1/2, do methods instead - trust me, it's a much better alternative.

[geminii]

Thanks for your replies!!
The thing is, I'm in the advanced maths class at school, and Specialist Maths 1&2 is compulsory for me to do next year unless I drop out of that class and into the mainstream maths class (where I will learn everything I'm learning this year all over again!)
Are there any differences between Maths Further, Maths Specialist and Maths Methods?
Thanks again!! 

[Crystall97]

Further maths is generally considered as the mainstream maths for year 12. You do a core component and three modules as chosen by your school. Generally speaking the concepts of further maths are VERY basic and the class is mainly there for those who dislike maths.

Maths Methods is the option usually taken by those who generally enjoy maths. You cover areas like probability, integration, calculus and functions and relations to name a few. The class involves a heap of graphing and other applications of the skills being taught.

Specialist Maths is the hardest maths on offer at VCE level. Most of the topics are repeated from methods but studied more thoroughly. Other topics unique to spesh include vectors, kinematics and mechanics. A deeper level of thinking is often needed for specialist. It is no harder than methods in pure maths skill, its knowing where and how to apply numerous techniques at once.

Note; Ive disregarded VCE algorithmics in my above statement. I dont actually know if it will become a class or how requirements will change to suit its introduction.

YOU MUST DO METHODS TO DO SPECIALIST! Not really sure whats going on at your school but the above stated is VCE requirement for 3/4 anyway. You wouldnt want to start spesh in year ten and wait a year before continuing.... Methods 1/2 in year 10 would be the way to go...

[keltingmeith]

So, your school just has a crap system. That sucks, but there's not much you can do about it - don't worry, I feel your pain, hahah.

There are a lot of differences, but there are also a lot of similarities.

Firstly, at least 60% of what you do in methods is relevant for specialist, but only 20% of specialist is relevant for methods. However, you need methods for specialist - so, if you do specialist, you're doing methods anyway.

Further is different, and it depends on what modules your school teaches. If they teach geometry, this is assumed knowledge for specialist, so there's some nice overlap there. If they teach graphs and relations, this is taught in the methods curriculum, so there's nice overlap there. If they do Matrices, most of this is assumed for methods (only exception is transition matrices which has recently been taken out of methods), so there's some nice overlap there. If they do discrete maths, there is overlap in the NEW spec 1/2 (so, you'll probably miss out there).
The last part of Further is a core unit, stats and business maths - there is some very small overlap with that in methods, but most of it will be new, and the core module covers 60% of what you need to know.

So, there is some overlap, but it's still different between all three. Don't expect to magically do well in further just because you have methods, but also don't expect to even do specialist without methods (I hope I've made it clear that you need methods for spec )

The way the subjects are traditionally viewed, further is easy maths you do if you don't want to ditch maths, methods is hard maths that you do because you're good at maths/need it as a pre-req and specialist is insane maths you only do because it has some very nice scaling (third best, to memory).

I also want to reiterate that you'll be doing these subjects with a new study design - that means that what's currently taught in the maths subjects will be different when you do the subjects, so try to seek advice from someone who understands the new study design, and not just people who are currently doing the subjects.

EDIT: Argh, being beaten by Crystal... Keeping all this up though, because reasons.

[Crystall97]

Haha, don't worry Euler, you seem to know much more than I do.

But i will add, if you are contemplating doing two maths you should decide whether you would be after an easier workload with stronger competition or a harder workload but weaker competitors...
A methods/specialist pairing will give you an easier few years with the overlaps and going over things twice. With this though comes an arsenal of students who are very advanced at maths and seem to wipe the floor with the rest of us. (Please take no offense to that statement. By the sounds you have excellent skills in maths yourself)
A further/methods pair will be much harder during the year, not necessarily in content but by learning two very different topics simultaniously. The reward of this though is if you can lead your cohort strongly, very high SS can be predicted as the competition statewide is often less.
Really the choice goes by what situation you think you can handle better...

[geminii]

Hmm, thanks for all the great advice, I think I will do Methods and Spesh because it seems like it'll be a lot easier 

[keltingmeith]

Hahah, s'all good Crystall - I just have to be up to date with all the new VCE news because of tutelage.

Speaking from experience, it will be easier - not so much in specialist, but you will better equipped for methods. In fact, I often (*coughalwayscough*) skipped methods revision, because you'll get more out of specialist revision AND it will complement the methods so nicely you may as well have been doing methods. It doesn't go the other way though, unfortunately.

[Orb]

If you're definitely going to take specialist, you have to do methods. This is essentially non-negotiable - not to mention that methods is a pre-req for a lot of things, and sometimes it's a pre-req without specialist being an alternative (which is kind of stupid, but eh). (note: this is with consultation to the new study design which I think will be in place by the time you reach VCE)

In terms of your questions:

1. The difference between 1/2 and 3/4 is that 1/2 you just need to pass, but it's your marks to 3/4 that will contribute to your ATAR.
2. It is recommended you do at least 5 all up - doing another one is good, another two is unnecessary but still good if you can handle it (I personally wouldn't say more than 6, though).
3. You can see in my signature what I took and my relevant scores - check that out if you want to know more about me.

Finally, in terms of what you're asking, if you don't like the idea of physics, don't do it. The way to beat VCE is to pick subjects you both like and are good at - in fact, being good at it is optional if you like it just that much.

Just some additional advice from me - I can see you have specialist 1/2 there. I personally suggest you DON'T accelerate maths - with the new study design changeover, it'll become difficult for you. You can't go into 3/4 spec in year 11 anyway, so that wasn't an option to begin with. But, if you do methods early, you'll miss out on some new information that you won't learn in spec otherwise (like parametric equations [REALLY IMPORTANT] and the new statistical inference stuff). If you really want to accelerate into maths, don't do spec 1/2, do methods instead - trust me, it's a much better alternative.

Not trying to nit-pick but it's actually possible for gifted students to do Specialist 3/4 in Year 11 or previous.

There's gifted Year 10s doing it at my school.

But yeah, unless you're a genius, you're not going to get great scores in specialist 3/4 in year 11 or prior to yr11

[Crystall97]

Not trying to nit-pick but it's actually possible for gifted students to do Specialist 3/4 in Year 11 or previous.

There's gifted Year 10s doing it at my school.

But yeah, unless you're a genius, you're not going to get great scores in specialist 3/4 in year 11 or prior to yr11

This is correct, depending on what school you attend. May I ask if you are refering to the old study designs or the new ones?

At the moment (Old study design) you can start specialist maths early. But to do 3/4 specialist you must have ALREADY completed 1/2 methods. This is considered assumed knowledge and regardless how gifted one is, the current rules forbid specialist without methods. The only possible way to complete specialist 3/4 in year 11 would be to take both specialist 1/2 and methods 1/2 in year 10.

[geminii]

Would it be wise to do Specialist 1/2 in year 10, Methods 1/2 in year 11 and Specialist 3/4 and Methods 3/4 in year 12?

[Crystall97]

That is an option. It depends on whether you believe you would continue to revise specialist for the year you aren't doing it so you don't fall behind.

I personally wouldn't recommed this. Firstly you are 'losing' your advantage over the cohort by starting and finishing earlier (I get that you cannot carry specialist through though). Also the year gap could be an issue. Sure you will be doing methods which covers related topics but you wouldn't want to get lazy in that year and forget some of the course.

[keltingmeith]

I did exactly that - when I got to year 12 specialist, it was as if I didn't do 1/2 at all. In fact, the system was so annoying for the spec teacher, he personally got the school to change the system.

However, you can still do well, and our top two spec students did do 1/2 in year 10. But, their scores were 35 and 37, which have been the norm at my school  for higher grades- this system does not lean towards 40+es unless you really work your ass off during the year/prior.

[geminii]

I did exactly that - when I got to year 12 specialist, it was as if I didn't do 1/2 at all.

So 1/2 Specialist isn't that important? I'm assuming 3/4 is the really big one - 1/2 doesn't count at all for your ATAR, right?