The Reluctant Fundamentalist thread

[speedy]

But his attempt to be more American did have limitations on it - for it was "as much as his dignity would permit". So he doesn't want to discount his self respect anymore, because he values Pakistan too strongly to ignore it any longer

Yeah and he feels as if he was "play acting" and it made him ashamed. But then again, he also felt like James Bond, with a heightened sense of "self-satisfaction", which shows that he does actually initially love the powerful corporate American way of life.

Also, he feels extremely proud to have Jim "take [him] under his wing", and his "Pakistaniness was invisible" - then right after it (his Pakistani identity) becomes very obvious due to his reaction to 9/11.

[andezzat]

This is a superb discussion going on here guys.
Just reading through most (if not all) of it has refreshed a lot of my ideas and concepts in regards to the text.
You guys have some very well-matured ideas here and are destined to do well on the exam!

Most of you have taken the interpretation of the text to great depths and have done extensive research outside of the narrative itself.
So I applaud you all for that.


My overall breakdown of TRF is as follows (with little distinct notes):

Changez is a modern day allegory of change (as his name suggests) and Hamid provokes this sense of constant clash of identity and belonging (I know this clashes with presenting and responding ) through out the narrative. With the initial richness (money-wise) and high class status that of Changez and his family in Lahore, and eventually to the rise of the almost empirical matter of economical affairs in him as he joins 'Underwood Samson'.
Do note that Underwood Samson do NOT share this 'humane' view of people as Changez does. "We believe in being the best." | "Would these workers be fired?" asks Changez when he was in Manila (I believe; correct me, my memory could possibly be deceiving me). But once again, his job was not to question authority, but to value assests! "I've valued a dozen publishers over two decades." says Changez to which Juan replies "That is finance." "I asked what you knew of books." So there you go. Super emphasized interpretation of Underwood Samson being this beast that only cares about 'Monetary value' but not sentimental things. That is without mentioning the story of 'Samson and Delilah' which can be used to link to the text well!
So just a quick overview of my thoughts (on only a few topics quickly). :3


I've been super busy with finishing my VET IT work, and have JUST started studying again for English, my weakest area is definitely text response. Which is why I want to strengthen it as much as possible.

Anyhow. I'll try to contribute when I see a chance to. Keep going guys, doing great

[walkec]

This is a superb discussion going on here guys.
Just reading through most (if not all) of it has refreshed a lot of my ideas and concepts in regards to the text.
You guys have some very well-matured ideas here and are destined to do well on the exam!

Most of you have taken the interpretation of the text to great depths and have done extensive research outside of the narrative itself.
So I applaud you all for that.


My overall breakdown of TRF is as follows (with little distinct notes):

Changez is a modern day allegory of change (as his name suggests) and Hamid provokes this sense of constant clash of identity and belonging (I know this clashes with presenting and responding ) through out the narrative. With the initial richness (money-wise) and high class status that of Changez and his family in Lahore, and eventually to the rise of the almost empirical matter of economical affairs in him as he joins 'Underwood Samson'.
Do note that Underwood Samson do NOT share this 'humane' view of people as Changez does. "We believe in being the best." | "Would these workers be fired?" asks Changez when he was in Manila (I believe; correct me, my memory could possibly be deceiving me). But once again, his job was not to question authority, but to value assests! "I've valued a dozen publishers over two decades." says Changez to which Juan replies "That is finance." "I asked what you knew of books." So there you go. Super emphasized interpretation of Underwood Samson being this beast that only cares about 'Monetary value' but not sentimental things. That is without mentioning the story of 'Samson and Delilah' which can be used to link to the text well!
So just a quick overview of my thoughts (on only a few topics quickly). :3


I've been super busy with finishing my VET IT work, and have JUST started studying again for English, my weakest area is definitely text response. Which is why I want to strengthen it as much as possible.

Anyhow. I'll try to contribute when I see a chance to. Keep going guys, doing great

Not to completely discount your interpretation, but this response is to merely add to it.
I don't think Hamid had change in mind when he called Changez Changez.
This is because the name Changez is actually Urdu for Genghis, so I think Changez being a symbol for change is more so of a coincidence than a deliberate choice by Hamid.

[speedy]

My overall breakdown of TRF is as follows (with little distinct notes):

Changez is a modern day allegory of change (as his name suggests) and Hamid provokes this sense of constant clash of identity and belonging (I know this clashes with presenting and responding ) through out the narrative. With the initial richness (money-wise) and high class status that of Changez and his family in Lahore, and eventually to the rise of the almost empirical matter of economical affairs in him as he joins 'Underwood Samson'.
Do note that Underwood Samson do NOT share this 'humane' view of people as Changez does. "We believe in being the best." | "Would these workers be fired?" asks Changez when he was in Manila (I believe; correct me, my memory could possibly be deceiving me). But once again, his job was not to question authority, but to value assests! "I've valued a dozen publishers over two decades." says Changez to which Juan replies "That is finance." "I asked what you knew of books." So there you go. Super emphasized interpretation of Underwood Samson being this beast that only cares about 'Monetary value' but not sentimental things. That is without mentioning the story of 'Samson and Delilah' which can be used to link to the text well!
So just a quick overview of my thoughts (on only a few topics quickly). :3

I think Changez can be interpreted as signifying change, however the author chose it because it is the Urdu pronunciation of 'Genghis' - this showcases two things, one: he cannot be wholly a religious extremist (do to the fact that Genghis Khan invaded and conquered muslim nations), and two: it brings forth the notion of a 'warrior', which Changez is in a capitalist sense, and also possibly in an anti-American/pro-Pakistan sense.

I think you're a bit too kind on Changez's 'humanity' in the corporate world. He does ask whether the workers would be fired - but he asks it to himself to reinforce how "enormously powerful" he felt in his work. Moreover, in New Jersey, he does feel "compassionate pangs" for the workers, however they were "not overwhelming in their frequency" and thus he continued to focus on his work. However in Valparaiso, he does realise the consequences of blindly focussing on the fundamentals, in that "no thought was given to the critical and personal issues that affect one's emotional present" and his "blinders" are removed.

Another note: this is Jim's quote - "I've valued a dozen publishers over two decades." - not Changez's

[speedy]

Another discussion point - the 'fundamentalism' in the novel.
I predominantly maintained the stance of it solely being economic fundamentalism that is the focus. However, Hamid has said that the fundamentalism also incorporates:

• The presumption from American society that he is a "fundamentalist until proven otherwise"(Hamid) - any evidence supporting this from the novel? "He is a reluctant fundamentalist because he knows he is being seen as one"(Hamid)
• "Although he is not religious, he begins to act in ways that we associate with fundamentalism - he grows a beard, he resents America, he goes back to Pakistan, he becomes quite virulent*(he kind of mumbled this but I think that's what he said)"(Hamid)

It seems that those two ideas actually contradict each other... But the author said these consecutively.

[Vermilliona]

Another discussion point - the 'fundamentalism' in the novel.
I predominantly maintained the stance of it solely being economic fundamentalism that is the focus. However, Hamid has said that the fundamentalism also incorporates:

• The presumption from American society that he is a "fundamentalist until proven otherwise"(Hamid) - any evidence supporting this from the novel? "He is a reluctant fundamentalist because he knows he is being seen as one"(Hamid)
• "Although he is not religious, he begins to act in ways that we associate with fundamentalism - he grows a beard, he resents America, he goes back to Pakistan, he becomes quite virulent*(he kind of mumbled this but I think that's what he said)"(Hamid)

It seems that those two ideas actually contradict each other... But the author said these consecutively.

Maybe Changez deliberately alienates himself from America because he's ashamed of having compromised his identity to be accepted by it - nothing to do with religion, but with re-asserting his belonging

[walkec]

Maybe Changez deliberately alienates himself from America because he's ashamed of having compromised his identity to be accepted by it - nothing to do with religion, but with re-asserting his belonging

I like this

[andezzat]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I agree with your points.

I also think so:
"Maybe Changez deliberately alienates himself from America because he's ashamed of having compromised his identity to be accepted by it - nothing to do with religion, but with re-asserting his belonging"

Changez feels as though to fit in he has to give up the Pakistani part of himself.
Throughout the story he attempts to tell himself that he's kind of okay with it, but really he is not. And a good example of this is when he "[takes] advantage of the ethnic exception clause that is written into every code of etiquette and [wears] a starched white kurt of delicately worked cotton over a pair of jeans."

If anything, I personally see his clothes resembling his identity. Torn between east and west in a sense I guess. Anyone care to elaborate on this one?

[andezzat]

Another discussion point - the 'fundamentalism' in the novel.
I predominantly maintained the stance of it solely being economic fundamentalism that is the focus. However, Hamid has said that the fundamentalism also incorporates:

• The presumption from American society that he is a "fundamentalist until proven otherwise"(Hamid) - any evidence supporting this from the novel? "He is a reluctant fundamentalist because he knows he is being seen as one"(Hamid)
• "Although he is not religious, he begins to act in ways that we associate with fundamentalism - he grows a beard, he resents America, he goes back to Pakistan, he becomes quite virulent*(he kind of mumbled this but I think that's what he said)"(Hamid)

It seems that those two ideas actually contradict each other... But the author said these consecutively.

Also in accordance with your second point. Changez says himself that "it occurred to [him] that the house had not changed in [his] absence. [he] had changed. [he] was looking about [himself] with the eyes of a foreigner..." and goes on to describe himself as a specific type of unsympathetic American.

I think this is a hint at his very reluctant side. Why would an extremist feel so out of place in his homeland?

[walkec]

Changez feels as though to fit in he has to give up the Pakistani part of himself.

You could also look at his sexual encounters with Erica to support this. In their first attempt to make love, Changez does not attempt to alter any part of himself to ease how she felt "uncomfortable". However, Changez jumps at the opportunity to "adopt the persona of Chris" as a "possible way forward" with Erica on their second encounter. This appears to heighten the "intensity" and connection they have, but there is still a forced and "rigid" undertone to their intimacies. This makes it apparent to the reader, and to Changez, that the only way that their relationship could be furthered was for Changez to represent someone of Western culture and values, thus mirroring how Changez has to rid himself from his Pakistani heritage to be accepted within America.

[andezzat]

You could also look at his sexual encounters with Erica to support this. In their first attempt to make love, Changez does not attempt to alter any part of himself to ease how she felt "uncomfortable". However, Changez jumps at the opportunity to "adopt the persona of Chris" as a "possible way forward" with Erica on their second encounter. This appears to heighten the "intensity" and connection they have, but there is still a forced and "rigid" undertone to their intimacies. This makes it apparent to the reader, and to Changez, that the only way that their relationship could be furthered was for Changez to represent someone of Western culture and values, thus mirroring how Changez has to rid himself from his Pakistani heritage to be accepted within America.

Bravo, spot on!


To top it all off, I think one of the turning points was when Changez got called a "f*n arab" (excuse me) in the car park I believe. Despite Changez's constant calm temparament that is witnessed till this moment, he loses it, "blood throbbed" to his temples. He even unlocked the boot and was ready to "shatter the bones of his skull". This is a fairly brief and non-violent description of his words and temper of course!
I can see this as significant to your earlier point, but I am at a lack of words as to how :S

[speedy]

Does anyone know of any prompts that feature minor characters?

[walkec]

Does anyone know of any prompts that feature minor characters?

There was one about Jim I read somewhere, but I can't exactly remember it. It was something about how Jim's behaviour towards Changez influences Changez's understanding of America as the novel progresses.

[speedy]

Any thoughts on Erica's novella - why is it so hard for her to give away? Is it simply a case of her developing a close connection to it over time? (due to the way in which she uses it to stabilise herself)

Edit: just realised some wording mistakes

[andezzat]

Any thoughts on Erica's novella - why is it so hard for her to give away? Is it simply a case of her developing a close connection to it over time? (due to the way in which she uses it to stabilise herself)

Edit: just realised some wording mistakes

Erica says that the novella "leaves space for your thoughts to echo". As cliche as it sounds, seeing that Erica does represent America's morals and standards somehow, perhaps the constant "sharp speck" inside Erica that she's had "for a long time" is America wanting to help the struggling western countries, and the novella is a metaphor for their words or actions undertaken, hence it being "more a novel than a novella", hinting at it not being GOOD/LONG enough to pass as a novel.

Is it conjecture? Yes!
Is it possible? Yes!
Is it far fetched? perhaps a little, but it's just an interpretation. Take what you will.