Why do you think so many people are bad at maths?

[xXNovaxX]

Just a thought :smiley6600:. You hear so many times, whether in the news, real life experience, newspapers etc that we are falling behind in maths. You only have to look at schools! I've moved schools several times, and in each school (public/though not limited to), sooo many people achieve C's and D's. In our recent tests we had 1/3 yes 33% of year 12 maths students FAIL a SAC, and the highest in the class was a 65% i think it was, and also those that passed got like 40% or around 45%

In other schools we experienced 2-3 math teacher changes a year, some students balmed the teachers inabilty to speak english clearly (though surely this cannot be the main issue), others citing "not qualified", and some blaming "unable to teach". Its difficult to ssay that "people are bad at maths because they dont study", this cant be true for Maths isn't the only subject where people don't complete homeowkr. :crazy2:

What i think the issue is...

• students doing poor at maths now, and grow up to teach maths as teachers at a poor level

• teachers not giving any homework in maths and checking (in every subejct we get homeowkr, and have it marked, in maths everyone bludges and doesn't do it knowing it wont be looked at)

• some textbooks use very poor/limited examples, maths is a subject which needs a lot more in dpeth information and detail/diagrams/examples than  say English or msuic, or art. This causes confusion and an inability to approach problems/excersies in OTHER textbooks

Any thoughts woiuld be interetsing

[TrueTears]

Australian maths education does not focus on the basics and fundamentals enough, also they "leap" around too much, they never do anything in order. Look at Chinese maths education, they consolidate the basics of everything and do everything in a specific order.

[xXNovaxX]

Australian maths education does not focus on the basics and fundamentals enough, also they "leap" around too much, they never do anything in order. Look at Chinese maths education, they consolidate the basics of everything and do everything in a specific order.

WOW! You read my mind , you are very correct! In moving schools i noticed each one taught soo many different strands and types of maths, and im spekaing of in year 7-10! They kept "leaping", and about the basics, you're right as well, i also think its ineffectivness in teaching, like in primary school we spent hours and hours a week doing maths, the basic of shapes etc, and each student was put in a group according to skill and given work appropriate to their needs, we also got given a 10 minute multiplication test, which we did every 2-3 days, and in 1 term, i improved in my speed by about 1/2 how i was before, other schools rely on rote-learning i.e. memorising timetables.

And about the Chinese system, i agree, it is also very common in japanese, European and some middle eastern schools. I remember my cousin in grade 1 or 2 i think it was learning times tables and fractions already, and understanding it.
Thanks for your comments, anyone else?

[TrueTears]

Yeah and also the standard of education here is way lower than schools in China, I'm talking primarily about primary schools. Here you learn to cut paper and learn the art of cutting out shapes and colour in shapes in primary school. In China, you already start doing year 7 - 9 things in primary school.

[NE2000]

The way primary school runs is to blame

Fun...yes
Stress-free...yes
Encouraging you to embark upon a path of academic excellence and seeing maths as something that is fascinating...not really

Too much repetition as well.

[zzdfa]

Maybe it's because maths is very sequential in that you must master the earlier material before you can effectively learn new material.

the teachers dont pick up on the small conceptual misunderstandings each year then you end up with people in year 11 (at mhs even) thinking that sin(x) means sin*x

[xXNovaxX]

Maybe it's because maths is very sequential in that you must master the earlier material before you can effectively learn new material.

the teachers dont pick up on the small conceptual misunderstandings each year then you end up with people in year 11 (at mhs even) thinking that sin(x) means sin*x

* embarrassed*, i guess i'm one of those people who think sin (x) is the same as sin*x, hahah, but you are correct about the small misunderstandings which they don't pick up on, and then by the time you're in higehr levels it becomes difficult to grasp concepts which encompass those skills you should have learnt before. This goes back to me saying teachers not checking your exercise book and or marking it like they used to in primary school. ALSO, this means the only time they know you struggle with something is during the SAC, (after you hand it in), by then it's too late and already gone to your SS. Furthermore, i hate it when they don't correct your SACS, that is, they just put big red X's, and crosses, with no explanation. This might encourage students to maybe clarify soemtihng and learn in future.

[kamil9876]

yeah. I don't like it how suddenly in vce you 'take leaps' as TT said. For example: the difficulty in a hard calculus question is not the actual calculus but some skill in elementary geometry/algebra/reasoning that could easily be obtained much before u "learn" how to integrate. The pioneers of calculus would be much more proficient at this and still have massive difficulties at differentiating and that is why students should be taught better at the 'pre-calculus' topics before jumping in there.

In other countries Calculus is thought of as some crazy uni math topic that you do once acquiring some math skill and before you learn this you learn number theory, geometry, logic, epsilon-delta limits, sums and series, algebra... which all makes sense because by doing so you acquire a taste for mathematical rigour which can then be applied to learning calculus more intelligently(especially when having knowledge of proof, limits and series(which really defines integration, not some mindless algorithms)).

In fact this lack of understanding what integration really means, just to take an example, is currently frustrating lecturers/tutors/students at uni since they[students] have difficulty in areas like physics where they must recognize limits of sums as integrals... but no... they[students] just see integrals as some crap u do with let u=.....

The above happens a lot when moving from one point in education to another, lack of skills in 7-10 affects poor algebra/geometry/reasoning in vce; poor definition of integration, proof, and mathematical ideas in general make it a difficult step into uni for most aspiring engineers.

edit: ambigous with "they"

[Fyrefly]

* embarrassed*, i guess i'm one of those people who think sin (x) is the same as sin*x, hahah, but you are correct about the small misunderstandings which they don't pick up on, and then by the time you're in higehr levels it becomes difficult to grasp concepts which encompass those skills you should have learnt before.

I remember in year 8... I simply could NOT understand +ves and -ves (like... multiplying and dividing and such)... I just DID NOT get it.
My teacher explained it exactly the same way as the txtbook every time I asked him, and the textbook didn't help me!
Eventually I gave up on asking him.

I don't remember how, but one day it all suddenly made sense to me.
I think one of my classmates may have explained it to me...

I dunno... I'm probably a bit weird in this respect tho... I never really understood the whole 'rise over run' thing that teachers kept repeating, but I got how to find gradient with x and y and such.

[xXNovaxX]

I get what you mean. I was going to say before, but thought its stupid, but i guess some people are just "born with it", it's no secret some people have the left/right side of their brain more developed then there's, some are artistic, some can't draw anytihng etc. I think it's not different for maths. Although ANYONE can IMPROVE in maths, I always think some people are always going to be better off. I get what you mean about it just CAME TO YOU, and how you don't understand -ve, +ve, LOL, because im in the same boat  :uglystupid2:. Ah well. lol.

It also comes down to how teachers explain. Sometimes i get teachers who just write on the board, or give explanations which are FROM OUR TEXTBOOK, which i could have easily looked at myself, other times they write/give extensive notes with useful annotators and a break down of the process. Ah well, can't be bliss all the time.

[lukeperry91]

Competition in China/India is greater than that in Australia. We do not enforce acedemia as such in primary school because an education can lead to other fields such as TAFE and practical studies. If you think your teachers are that bad, change schools; if you think the syllabus is that bad, write a letter to the board of education stating your point. This post is in the further maths thread, and ironically, the specialist buffs are the ones complaining about it being too easy. Before saying China educates its citizens better than Australia does, look at their unemployment rates, and the percent of the populus living under the poverty line in comparison to that of Australia. Evidently, irrespective of the higher standard of mathematics skills in China, the two country's systems have both positive and negative attributes, and saying that opportunities are limited in Australia due to the perceived lower standard is a fallacy as Australia is home to many prized mathematicians and scientists.

[TrueTears]

Competition in China/India is greater than that in Australia. We do not enforce acedemia as such in primary school because an education can lead to other fields such as TAFE and practical studies. If you think your teachers are that bad, change schools; if you think the syllabus is that bad, write a letter to the board of education stating your point. This post is in the further maths thread, and ironically, the specialist buffs are the ones complaining about it being too easy. Before saying China educates its citizens better than Australia does, look at their unemployment rates, and the percent of the populus living under the poverty line in comparison to that of Australia. Evidently, irrespective of the higher standard of mathematics skills in China, the two country's systems have both positive and negative attributes, and saying that opportunities are limited in Australia due to the perceived lower standard is a fallacy as Australia is home to many prized mathematicians and scientists.

Who said that?

Australia's prized mathematician Terrence Tao, both parents are both the very first Chinese immigrants, whose mother is a physicist and a mathematician graduate from the university of Hong Kong. Nuff said.

[lukeperry91]

Isn't that the whole point of the thread? Poorer education==>Less opportunities.

"Australia's prized mathematician Terrence Tao, both parents are both the very first Chinese immigrants, whose mother is a physicist and a mathematician graduate from the university of Hong Kong. Nuff said."

I could google white mathematicians whose parents were born in Au as well, doesn't prove anything. BTW, is the implication of your statement that Australia's best are just Chinese immigrants?

[lukeperry91]

What does his mother have to do with it anyway, once he's a citizen hes an Australian just like the rest of us.

[TrueTears]

True but I am talking about his background. Chinese parents do put more pressure on children then most Australians, thus the desire to be better academically is stronger.

This doesn't mean that Australia's best are Chinese immigrants, I merely stated a notable pattern.