Why do you think so many people are bad at maths?

[Eriny]

I think Australian schools tend to form a more friendly environment than many of the schools in Asia. In Australia, a teacher is somebody who will know you quite well by the end of your high school days - and not just your academic strengths and weakness, they'll also know your career plans, your personality, your likes and dislikes, etc. An Australian teacher is also someone who tries to cater for an entire class of students who will all have different backgrounds and levels of ability. From what I've heard (and I would like confirmation of this) many teachers in different countries don't act as this egalitarian extra support resource. They are seen as largely unapproachable and disciplinarian.

I think this system has a lot of benefits, and I think I would have found school considerably more difficult if the environment was any less friendly. I also think that students can really thrive in this environment because they feel as though they can try out new ideas, particularly in terms of their creativity and in developing and expressing their own ideas an opinions and being analytical and critical, particularly in regard to authority. And I think these skills are fairly invaluable, especially once one leaves high school. I remember from a show I watched about people coming to Australia from Asia to do Masters degrees really struggled with the level of critical thinking involved.

However, there is a cost. And perhaps maths is the area that highlights the cost a lot. Lots of Australian students are 'afraid' of maths and maths being as rigorous as it is (as in, you can't experiment with your ideas in maths - you're either right or wrong) a lack of discipline in this area and an unwillingness to accept authority will get you nowhere. Adding to that, Australian students aren't taught the basics of logic or proofs at all in high school so even if they were in an environment which was highly black and white and disciplined, it is kind of difficult to see how everything fits together. That said, many students do very well in maths, and it's hardly fair to say that because a bunch of students in one class scored badly on a SAC that 'so many people are bad at maths'. And I think also that once someone has majored in maths at an Australian university, the discrepancies in maths ability across continents wouldn't be nearly as pronounced. But then again, I guess there you aren't dealing with the 'average' student, you're dealing with people who like and are interested in maths.

[xXNovaxX]

Hey Eriny, nice post. Your're right, one of the best things about the system is most teacehrs and schools really do cater for every indviduals need. You only have to look at how they hire Integration aids, or helpers for disbaled people, even if its just ONE student. I think that's great.

And your spot on with how ur teacher becomes like a "friend", i had a teacher for most of my high school years who was quiet young, and sort of, not "acted like us", but had the same mode of thinkning, or that they are able to sympathise/empathise with us? It sort of made those classes feel like ur at home kind of lol, and at the same time ur getting something out of education.

[lukeperry91]

"Interesting comment here, if an immigrant with Australian Citizenship committed an act of mass murder, would you still consider this person one of us?" Yes and no: for him to become a citizen he has to live in Australia for years without committing crime in the process. If he commits mass murder we had no way of foreseeing it, and if we deny him/her the right to a fair trial as a citizen, then where would we draw the line at denying unnatural citizens rights?
That being said, I don't think its in the Aussie spirit to associate ourselves with mass murderers, so while he would still be a citizen (until he's punished?) I doubt anyone in the community would consider him their own.

@Ninwa: YOU stop being defensive and refute my arguments despite alleged irrelevancy.. you totally overlooked the fact that I pointed out the correlation between education and opportunities.

[/0]

Perhaps the reason why not as many Aussies pursue math is due to negative cultural stereotypes. In our culture, it is the norm to think that sports is cool and maths is nerdy. Maths is non-conformist!

[xXNovaxX]

LOL! I think so to, its so weird, i agree with people, but i also agree with the rebutals, all these things are true!! At least we sort of got back on topic, xD we risked having this thread moved/closed lol, well i thought so anyway.

[ninwa]

I think everything NE2000 said was spot on. I think anybody can excel with the right environment to grow up in. It's only when you get to the genius level that genes play a role.

From what I've heard (and I would like confirmation of this) many teachers in different countries don't act as this egalitarian extra support resource. They are seen as largely unapproachable and disciplinarian.

Yep, you're right. I'm really glad my parents brought me to Australia; I would've been miserable under an Asian system.

@Ninwa: YOU stop being defensive and refute my arguments despite alleged irrelevancy.. you totally overlooked the fact that I pointed out the correlation between education and opportunities.

Nobody ever said there was no correlation between education and opportunities. When did I even attempt to refute that? I agree with that contention :\

You are being over-defensive and thereby jumping to conclusions - you took TT's statement that Chinese education is more academically rigorous to mean that it is superior to the Australian system, and sought to back that up with arguments that there are more opportunities in Australia. Of course there are - there is a lot less competition, like you yourself mentioned. But your entire opportunities argument is irrelevant considering nobody ever denied that was the case, explicitly or implicitly. That's all we've been trying to say.

[Mao]

"Interesting comment here, if an immigrant with Australian Citizenship committed an act of mass murder, would you still consider this person one of us?" Yes and no: for him to become a citizen he has to live in Australia for years without committing crime in the process. If he commits mass murder we had no way of foreseeing it, and if we deny him/her the right to a fair trial as a citizen, then where would we draw the line at denying unnatural citizens rights?
That being said, I don't think its in the Aussie spirit to associate ourselves with mass murderers, so while he would still be a citizen (until he's punished?) I doubt anyone in the community would consider him their own.

I like the way the Aussie Spirit picks and chooses whoever it wants. You are willing to embrace Terrence Tao because he is a citizen, but you aren't willing to accept a nationalized terrorist as part of the community.


On a different note, I would like to point out that opportunities and education has a correlation, but not necessarily causation. There are 200-million school-goers in China, more than 10 million students graduate from higher education each year. China sure has the capacity to build many many more universities, but the world's skilled workforce does not have a high enough demand for it, as it is already, skilled graduates cannot find jobs because there simply isn't enough jobs. This is the cause of unemployment, because the economy is not big enough to support it, not because education level is not high enough.

So that pretty much invalidates your entire argument, the reason why there are less opportunities in China is because an average Chinese person is poorer than an average Australian person, not because an average Chinese person has worse education.

[dcc]

Perhaps the reason why not as many Aussies pursue math is due to negative cultural stereotypes. In our culture, it is the norm to think that sports is cool and maths is nerdy. Maths is non-conformist!

Obviously you don't talk to the right people.  Everyone I know thinks maths is king-god-man of the earth.

I like the way the Aussie Spirit picks and chooses whoever it wants. You are willing to embrace Terrence Tao because he is a citizen, but you aren't willing to accept a nationalized terrorist as part of the community.

I like how the chinese spirit basically revolves around stifling freedom (and denying history, for that matter).

[Mao]

I like the way the Aussie Spirit picks and chooses whoever it wants. You are willing to embrace Terrence Tao because he is a citizen, but you aren't willing to accept a nationalized terrorist as part of the community.

I like how the chinese spirit basically revolves around stifling freedom (and denying history, for that matter).

I'm assuming that statement criticizes the 'chinese spirit', provided that freedom is a 'good' thing. Morality is relative. Maybe stifling freedom turn us on?

[/0]

Fascism sucks.
Free market sucks.
What we need is a utilitarian computer to govern the world.

[EvangelionZeta]

Perhaps the reason why not as many Aussies pursue math is due to negative cultural stereotypes. In our culture, it is the norm to think that sports is cool and maths is nerdy. Maths is non-conformist!

Obviously you don't talk to the right people.  Everyone I know thinks maths is king-god-man of the earth.

I like the way the Aussie Spirit picks and chooses whoever it wants. You are willing to embrace Terrence Tao because he is a citizen, but you aren't willing to accept a nationalized terrorist as part of the community.

I like how the chinese spirit basically revolves around stifling freedom (and denying history, for that matter).

Interestingly enough, Plato's ideal state in The Republic involves information control and people being assigned to specific roles depending on their capabilities - regardless of what they want personally.

[dcc]

I'm assuming that statement criticizes the 'chinese spirit', provided that freedom is a 'good' thing. Morality is relative. Maybe stifling freedom turn us on?

I think you misunderstand.  Freedom (which I characterise as property rights) is devoid of morality.  China lacks these rights (indeed, actively opposes them).

[methodsboy]

maybe cause they are better in artsy or subjects that require you to write essays

[ninwa]

(and denying history, for that matter).

I don't think Australia is in a position to criticise other countries' denial of history just yet.

[Toothpaste]

Are we playing dress-up as a country? Can I play too?