Prestige

[miaow]

I know this is probably something that comes up quite regularly, but how important do you consider prestige to be in terms of choosing one university over another? I've very heavily gotten the impression that Monash or Uni Melb are the only practical choices for a top end student, and I'm not convinced that its that one dimensional of a choice.
Is the quality really that different? Is there a community perception about the "less elite" even with the same qualification?
The uni I'm really considering other than those big two is Deakin. I've heard they're really trying to up their reputation, and they seem to have a really good program, nice facilities and an awesome exchange program. (Plus I'll be honest the really chill social atmosphere is pretty enticing, and really nice wayyy more afforable on campus accommodation is luring. I know its not the top priority but if I'm going to uni, I guess I want it to be fun. )
Btw the course I'm looking to study is Arts/Law. I've been told a fair bit that mid-tier firms and beyond will only seriously consider Monash/Uni Melb JD applicants for graduate jobs, and on that basis don't go elsewhere. Thing is I don't really want to be a solicitor (as of now, could change) but I'm more interested in literary and journalistic fields, politics etc. In this respect is a degree from Deakin or elsewhere (Latrobe maybe) a drawback as opposed to Monash or USYD etc?

[brenden]

I know this is probably something that comes up quite regularly, but how important do you consider prestige to be in terms of choosing one university over another? I've very heavily gotten the impression that Monash or Uni Melb are the only practical choices for a top end student, and I'm not convinced that its that one dimensional of a choice.
Is the quality really that different? Is there a community perception about the "less elite" even with the same qualification?
The uni I'm really considering other than those big two is Deakin. I've heard they're really trying to up their reputation, and they seem to have a really good program, nice facilities and an awesome exchange program. (Plus I'll be honest the really chill social atmosphere is pretty enticing, and really nice wayyy more afforable on campus accommodation is luring. I know its not the top priority but if I'm going to uni, I guess I want it to be fun. )
Btw the course I'm looking to study is Arts/Law. I've been told a fair bit that mid-tier firms and beyond will only seriously consider Monash/Uni Melb JD applicants for graduate jobs, and on that basis don't go elsewhere. Thing is I don't really want to be a solicitor (as of now, could change) but I'm more interested in literary and journalistic fields, politics etc. In this respect is a degree from Deakin or elsewhere (Latrobe maybe) a drawback as opposed to Monash or USYD etc?

Man, I wish I had your insight when I was 17. I'm listneing to this radio thing right now: http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pgYR7q3Rn6?play=true talking abotu the changing climate of universities and how the "university experience" is now reduced more to a service/commodity lacking in social atmosphere and stuff like that. I think you'd be better off choosing the atmosphere you like better than just choosing a uni for the sake of prestige.

[keltingmeith]

(Plus I'll be honest the really chill social atmosphere is pretty enticing, and really nice wayyy more afforable on campus accommodation is luring. I know its not the top priority but if I'm going to uni, I guess I want it to be fun. )

I don't care what anybody else says, social reasons can and should be a consideration when applying for unis. I will admit, though, that Monash definitely (and I think Melbourne) has a really good, chill social atmosphere. Sure, if you spend all your time among people who think that GPA is everything, you won't see it - but if you hang around anyone else, the only pressures you'll face are ones you'll see at any university.

Whenever this question gets asked, the general answer is this: yes, if you're going for the cream of the crop firms, prestige may factor into the equation. However, for most places who are hiring, a strong CV with extra-curriculars, experience and internships should definitely be enough to get you an interview - and once you're in the interview, all that matters is you can talk yourself in.

[Wharton]

Work experience>prestige.

[miaow]

Man, I wish I had your insight when I was 17. I'm listneing to this radio thing right now: http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pgYR7q3Rn6?play=true talking abotu the changing climate of universities and how the "university experience" is now reduced more to a service/commodity lacking in social atmosphere and stuff like that. I think you'd be better off choosing the atmosphere you like better than just choosing a uni for the sake of prestige.

I have this tendency to overthink, its ridiculous Thanks heaps for the insight, and the link! Much appreciated dude My gut instinct tells me she'll be right, just go with it and do what feels right but the little anxious voice says nah man everythings gonna go to shit.

Whenever this question gets asked, the general answer is this: yes, if you're going for the cream of the crop firms, prestige may factor into the equation. However, for most places who are hiring, a strong CV with extra-curriculars, experience and internships should definitely be enough to get you an interview - and once you're in the interview, all that matters is you can talk yourself in.

Awesome, thank you! So the general gist I'm getting here is put yourself in an environment where you'll best thrive, immerse yourself in that environment in terms of engaging with the course, extra curricular and all those things I'm keen to do anyway So making the most of it and coming out with a strong CV and outlook will trump the prestige factors? Man I hope so anyway

Thanks a tonne for the replies guys! (and if anyone else has insight don't take that to mean discussion closed, i am alwayyys eager to hear other peoples opinions ahaha) 

[Reus]

From what I've heard, those who choose uni's for prestige end up dropping and moving into another uni the next year.

[Russ]

This question is rarely as straightforward as 'yes' or 'no' but there is a tendency for people to gloss over the fact that certain universities come with cachet that the lower tier universities don't have. The extent to which it matters is also variable, between fields and professions but I gather for Law it's absolutely a big deal. You can wish it wasn't so, but you're only doing yourself a disservice if you ignore that people like names and reputations.

If you're genuinely brilliant you'll stand out, but the issue with expecting to compensate is that all of your competition will also have top grades, lots of extracurriculars and good references. Those things aren't difficult to get if you put in the effort, which everybody else in pursuit of a job will be doing.

Most universities will offer a good social experience once you have a friendship group, I wouldn't expect Deakin to be any worse in that regard. The universities in the CBD (Melbourne, Monash, RMIT etc.) probably have more social opportunities but it's not that big a deal if you know your classmates or hang out with the societies.

[MagicGecko]

From my belief, prestige plays the part of 'eye-catching' an employers attention when they go through hundreds of applications, that's all there is to it. But from a recent careers fair event i attended, employers favor work experience. But yeah, go ahead and try for Monash or Melb uni, they might help grab the employers attention, but hopefully you can keep up with their workload, because there is no point in grabbing an employers attention if you don't have a proper offering.

But then again, it truly does not really matter what type of uni you go to, take my older sister for example.
She duxed her highschool 99.90 but chose Victoria University, just for the sole reason of it being closer to our home, prestige had no place in her mind, in fact, from what she told me, she said ever since year 11 she wanted to study Nursing at VU (I don't know why). She got good grades, graduated 3 years ago I think, got a grad year straight away and is now working full time. She's also payed off all her HECS and bought land.
From a mainstream VCE student perspective, getting a job straight out of uni, paying HECS off fast and getting a house is what you would think those that graduate from top prestigious universities like Monash or Melbourne Uni are likely achieve. Well that wasn't the case for my sis.

Anyways, even if you don't get into a prestigious university, you can still achieve what they can.

Gonna be friggin hard for me to find a biomedical engineering job in Australia though, sighhh.

[spectroscopy]

just going to go against the grain a bit here to provide some thoughts on the other side of the argument -

prestige exists for a reason, and usually a good one. i go to melbourne so that is where most of my perspective will be coming from. the uni has been around for well over a hundred years and over this time it has been really on the cutting edge of the newest discoveries in a whole bunch of fields. not only that but some of the most productive and successful research institutes have very close ties to it. the same applies to monash and in this sense they are both go8 universities and i feel like these are the sorts of things that come with being in that group. other unis also have these things, dont get me wrong, but its to a lesser extent, and at some of the other unis, they dont have the resources to be multi-disciplinarily world renowned, and they are forced to focus on certain fields to really stand out. This leads to the main point that prestige in the area you are studying is more important than the uni's overall prestige eg; RMIT is great for engineering but you probably wouldnt go there to study european history or something, and the image of RMIT reflects that. Swinburne is absolutely nuts for computer science but its not really up there in areas like business.

prestige isnt the be all and end all but universities do have reputations for a reason. a university that is pumping out a bunch of really good graduates will eventually attract more on campus recruiters and as such this universities prestige in said field will increase, and in that sense, it would be a well founded reason for said prestige. and i also think the curriculum has a bit to do with it. melbourne is really up there in the world rankings for accounting and finance, and when i look at my coursework and lectures and assignments in the subject, and i am studying with my friends in business and commerce courses at other unis, i definitely feel like the prestige of the place comes across in the curriculum. people say things like "oh thats how this idea applies in the real world" "oh hey thats a neat trick to figure this out" "oh is that the proof for that formula?" etc.

slightly incoherent cos i have heaps of assignments due (LOL) but just chucking in my 2 cents
but srsly tho fuck prestige.  if you see a uni, you think the curriculum looks sick and you dig the atmosphere then just go there and study hard and get good grades and extra curriculars and it wont matter where you come from

good luck

[EvangelionZeta]

This question is rarely as straightforward as 'yes' or 'no' but there is a tendency for people to gloss over the fact that certain universities come with cachet that the lower tier universities don't have. The extent to which it matters is also variable, between fields and professions but I gather for Law it's absolutely a big deal. You can wish it wasn't so, but you're only doing yourself a disservice if you ignore that people like names and reputations.

If you're genuinely brilliant you'll stand out, but the issue with expecting to compensate is that all of your competition will also have top grades, lots of extracurriculars and good references. Those things aren't difficult to get if you put in the effort, which everybody else in pursuit of a job will be doing.

Most universities will offer a good social experience once you have a friendship group, I wouldn't expect Deakin to be any worse in that regard. The universities in the CBD (Melbourne, Monash, RMIT etc.) probably have more social opportunities but it's not that big a deal if you know your classmates or hang out with the societies.

This.  Bear in mind a lot of employers (top-tier law firms particularly) get way more applications than they are able to fill, all with lots of complexity and effort put into them.  At some point, they can't trawl through everyone's co-curriculars to work out which ones are better, so they default back to more straightforward means of discrimination, cutting away everyone who doesn't meet things like a certain grade average, everyone who hasn't had a certain amount of work experience, and yes, everyone who doesn't attend certain universities.  It's a brutal, brutal world.  I've actually asked some of my older law friends about this as well, and their own experience was that there were people from Deakin who had gotten into their grad programs, but that they were the vast, vast minority (like 1 or 2 versus 20-30 for Monash, for instance).  That's not to say that you can't choose a university like Deakin for others reasons (I also strongly agree with everything that is said about university being as much about the experience itself as anything else), but it would be a disservice to pretend some unfortunate aspects of our reality don't exist.

[EvangelionZeta]

It's also worth bearing in mind that prestige does have impacts on the quality of your experience as well at some level, particularly with regards to clubs and societies.  Prestigious universities tend to attract more privileged individuals who feel confident/have been socialised to be more proactive and opportunity-seeking.  This tends to make it easier, in prestigious unis, to garner interest for co-curricular activities, making it easier to start successful clubs and such.  Take uni debating for instance: G08 universities tend to dominate, and that is in large part because they attract a lot of kids who did debating in high school (because privileged schools encourage co-curricular involvement), making it easier to find people to form clubs.  In contrast, unis like RMIT and Deakin (in Melbourne) have almost non-existent debating clubs, because even though they have talented individuals who are keen, there isn't a critical mass of people who are invested enough to form a committee, organise events, etc.  Given you're interested in Politics and Journalism, that's definitely something to consider (I'm under the impression student journalism is much easier at G08 universities, for instance; certainly, the biggest uni newspapers tend to come from them).